Replies: 26 Comments
Comment #1: MAX 1 said on 4/27/06 @ 1:15am ET...
Congressman Conyers,
The question to be addressing is: Will Spec. Pro. Fitzgerald address the level of conduct that the pesident and his vice president partook in the disclosure of Valerie Plame? The sequence of events paint a picture of spilled beans from the hands of the president to the V.P. to Libby to the Post and then declassified. Souldn't the correct Bush Policy have been followed by Bush as per his policy? Declassification FIRST, not last?
Comment #2: Alma said on 4/27/06 @ 1:15am ET...
Won't that look great? The Presidents top guy and the V.P.s top guy, both indicted? Maybe they can be roomies after they are convicted.
I sure hope Fitzgerald can get to the bottom of everything and round up all the bottom feeders and send them to their rightful place in prison.
Comment #3: Kitty Gambler said on 4/27/06 @ 3:32am ET...
I'm impressed by the tenacity and apparent fearlessness of Patrick Fitzgerald in pursuing this case. At this point in history, he is among our last hopes for calling Bushco to account for its crimes against the common good and the United States Constitution.
Comment #4: MAX 1 said on 4/27/06 @ 5:52am ET...
Comment #3: Kitty Gambler
I'm not counting out State Impeachments, three in State Legislatures currently. And don't forget the round-up/vote of November. Hopefully the House may gain enough seats to actually create a momentum of accountability of the Administration.
And BTW.
Congressman Conyers,
Not to be directed toward you nor at my Congressman McDermott, but I have a question as to how other Congreassional members square themselves in the accountability aspect? At some point, be it now(preferrably) or years from now, America must face this cherade to correct this course or forever be lost to perpetual war and fear mongering and ursurping of laws and mandates to "FIT" desired outcomes.
I know this may seem incredulous to say, but the silence from the vast majority of Congress, as to the lawlessness and ilegality of both the president, vice president, Rumsfeld, Rice and the AG Gonzales, in my perspective, leaves them complicit to the same degree as those charged.
What I mean to say is how can Congressional representatives adopt a policy of party over people, pride of rank over call of duty? At some point, be it now or some time in the future, America will judge their elected Officials and hold accountabile their inability to act accordingly to the people.
Comment #5: Dr Alan H Levinson said on 4/27/06 @ 6:50am ET...
JC,
Received an invite from Del Bryant to attend a fund raiser at the NY Friar's Club meeting honoring you. The date is Monday, May 1st. I get lots of spam and am afraid to open it without your approval. Is it real?
Alan
Comment #6: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 7:11am ET...
Anyone remember that it cost the Federal Government around $44MM to investigate Bill Clinton's event with Monica?
Can't wait to find out how much the Federal Government lost hunting down a leak WITHIN the White House (best guess $100MM) when the two guys who only made a move if their bosses told them to are under scrutiny. We know where this is going to lead and it has Bush and Cheney written all over it.
It's one thing to lie about a relationship with an intern, but its an entirely different matter to lie to Congress and the American people in order to pursue an agenda of war, death, destruction and torture all in the name of big oil.
The self righteous Rethuglicans were quick to point the finger at Clinton but their crimes against this country haven't risen to a murmur until now. In time all the King's horses and all the King's men will fall and the dark underbelly of the Bush administration will be revealed. My concern is that, when it does, we may, in some ways feel the way the Germans did after WWII when they were exposed to the tortuous killing camps of the Third Reich.
Comment #7: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 7:25am ET...
As long as we're talking about lies and the lying liars who tell them, a quick review of the BIG LIE regarding the cost of the war in Iraq.
This is from today's Washington Post:
"The cost of the war in Iraq will reach $320 billion after the expected passage next month of an emergency spending bill currently before the Senate, and that total is likely to more than double before the war ends, the Congressional Research Service estimated this week."
Projected Iraq War Costs Soar
Total Spending Is Likely to More Than Double, Analysis Finds
Back in '02 Rumsfeld lied to the American people that the total cost of the war in Iraq would be $50 billion with the war being paid for by Iraqui oil. Fast forward to '06 and the price of oil is through the roof, the only ones enriched by this war are the military industrial complex led by Halliburton and the budget surplus of 2000 (when Clinton left office) is pretty much history with this country in hock for the next three generations thanks to BushCo. These lies must not go unpunished. Bush, Cheney, Libby and Rove need to go to jail for leading this country into this mess.
"White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey was the exception to the rule, offering an "upper bound" estimate of $100 billion to $200 billion in a September 2002 interview with The Wall Street Journal. That figure raised eyebrows at the time, although Lindsey argued the cost was small, adding, "The successful prosecution of the war would be good for the economy.”
U.S. direct spending on the war in Iraq already has surpassed the upper bound of Lindsey's upper bound, and most economists attribute billions more in indirect costs to the war effort. Even if the U.S. exits Iraq within another three years, total direct and indirect costs to U.S. taxpayers will likely by more than $400 billion, and one estimate puts the total economic impact at up to $2 trillion.
Back in 2002, the White House was quick to distance itself from Lindsey's view. Mitch Daniels, director of the White House budget office, quickly called the estimate "very, very high." Lindsey himself was dismissed in a shake-up of the White House economic team later that year, and in January 2003, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the budget office had come up with "a number that's something under $50 billion." He and other officials expressed optimism that Iraq itself would help shoulder the cost once the world market was reopened to its rich supply of oil. "
Cost of Iraq war could surpass $1 trillion
Estimates vary, but all agree price is far higher than initially expected
Comment #8: JC said on 4/27/06 @ 8:05am ET...
Max 1, KG: Fitzgerald has been very deliberate to date and has heard testimony from the president and vice-president so I think he's got them in his focus too.
Alan: Yes. It's real.
Nolip: I believe the total cost of the Clinton investigation was closer to $100 million. And the estimated total costs of the Iraq war by Nobel economist Joseph Stiglitz are between $1 and $2 Trillion.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1681119,00.html
Comment #9: Ohiodem1 said on 4/27/06 @ 8:33am ET...
An indictment of Karl Rove should be cause for his dismissal for the same reason Libby was dismissed, and the reason DeLay was forced to step down. It points to a rot at the top of the entire Republican rule (yes rule, not govern) of our country.
This of course is not a case of one bad apple spoiling the barrel, it is a case of an entire truckload of bad apples from the start.
Indictments do not mean convictions, and the presumption of innocence still holds, but it is clear that the unethical nature of Mr. Rove's well-documented past willingness to do anything necessary to obtain political gain makes it abundantly clear that this man, a political hack, should not be, and should never have been in a position to influence policy at the highest level. His security clearance should not have been revoked, it should never had been issued. This kind of power in the hands of an amoral man such as Rove should never have been granted in the first place. It seems inevitable that that power would be misused.
I would like to address the questions raised by Nolip in number 7 above. The pre-war comment by Rumsfeld putting a $50 B cost on the war, and then saying Iraqi oil revenue would pay for the war is, and always has been to me, curious.
I mean that on several levels. First look at what reparations did to Germany after WW I. The Paris conference exacted a reparation plan to charge Germany for the victorious allie's costs of executing the war. These reparations destroyed the economy of Germany, and can be said to be a proximate cause of the rise of Hitler, as the people of Germany were looking for a change to reverse the hyperinflation which was caused by the reparations.
Second, in my memory, this was the first time an announcement in advance, before the first shot of the war was fired, our government had already made the decision to exact reparations from Iraq. Since oil revenues was responsible for probably 80 to 90 per cent of Iraq's foreign exchange, we announced in advance that we would decimate their economy.
Third, the oil legitimately belongs to the Iraqi people, not the United States, and the United States should have no claim on the revenue stream from Iraqi oil. Under what means would the United States gain access to this revenue?
Fourth, the United States, the nation declaring war on false pretenses to a nation who was not belligerent with the United States, and then announcing an intent to exact reparations from the driver of the entire economy of the nation gives the lie that oil and its control was not a motivating factor for the United States leadership.
Let's move on to the war cost. For the sake of argument, assume for a minute that the financial cost for the war is $320 Billion (not a real cost because we are executing the entire war on credit, and no figure for interest is included). Then the figure for executing to the end of the war is expected to double. This a clear indication that according to the Congressional Research Service that the war will go on for at least another three years, or to match a doubling of the cost, at the minimum, the engagement will last twice as long. That is just adding 2 plus 2.
Now, the administration is agitating for war once again. This time with Iran, a country that has a modern economy, that has a modern military, a nation with three times the population of Iraq or Afghanistan. A nation with varied topography, not a flat desert like Iraq. Iran is also a nation with a single national identy, and one likely to fight to maintain it, with internal cohesion that has the loyalty of the military forces.
All of that indicates that a war with Iran would be far more costly, both in lives and dollars. The two wars we are engaged in right now have bled us dry. How do we find enough soldiers to fight another war? The only answer is conscription. How do we pay for another war? We can't unless we as a nation choose to tax the Haves and the Have Mores, the President's base. Can you imagine this happening? I can't. Of course the funding source will be American generations, yet unborn. We will owe that debt to two entities. First, it will be the Haves and Have Mores, those who can afford to purchase the 30 year bonds on a tax free basis. Second, it will be our nation's commerical and economic rivals, who will hold the lion's share of the debt.
Again, those who will pay the human and financial cost of the war will be the lower and middle wage earners and our children and five generations of our progeny. In effect, Americans will still be paying for this folly 100 years from now.
I haven't checked this statistic lately, but in years past, the second largest expenditure of tax revenue in the United States budget was debt service, right after defense. In the future, Defense will fall to number two, and debt service, paid by the low and middle wage earners will be far and away the number one expenditure of the American taxpayer.
Congress must stop this madness.
Comment #10: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 8:33am ET...
Congressman Conyers,
You highlight, to a greater degree, the serious malfeasance of this administration relative to its lies that took us into this war and the absolute egregious misuse of the impeachment process against President Clinton. $100MM is nothing to sneeze at but its lunch money compared to the $2 Trillion dollar price tag (most of which is going to the military industrial complex aka Halliburton) for the war in Iraq. Meanwhile this country spends additional time and money investigating the liars within the White House whose role in this administration is to obfuscate at every turn and "kill" the message by shooting any messenger that brings the truth to the surface. Fitzgerald's "truth" doesn't appear to be going away although BushCo's made a few attempts at "shooting" the messenger, eg having Fitzgerald removed as special prosecutor for bogus reasons.
Your continued efforts through the hearings that you've called, as well as "Constitution in Crisis" continues to hold the Bush administration accountable and someday the legal process will levy an appropriate punishment for same.
Comment #11: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 12:08pm ET...
Don't know what you call it, "bait and switch", "mixed message", "lie" but here's a clear cut case of where Bush says one thing and what he really means is so far hidden in the subtext as to make it impossible to differentiate the truth from the lie and this has been going on for his entire administration from the "no child left behind" (make an impossible law and then don't fund it), "war in Iraq" (send boys to their deaths or if they survive cut the funding for their pay and medical benefits), "the environment" (let gas prices go through the roof and solve that problem with a worse one...diminishing the restrictions meant to provide clean air to a world choking to death from carbon monoxide gases)...the list goes on and on...Rove taught everything Bush knows to Bush about sending out mixed messages and now Rove is caught by his own confusion over what's a lie and what's truth. In time it will happen to Bush, if it hasn't happened already. This is from an August '05 article which, in retrospect and in light of today's gas prices, shows Bush to be the greatest liar on the planet, bar none.
===============
By Jim VandeHei and Justin Blum
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, August 9, 2005; A03
"ALBUQUERQUE, Aug. 8 -- President Bush signed the first national energy legislation in more than a decade on Monday, hailing the measure as a smart way to make Americans more secure and less dependent on foreign oil.
At a bill-signing ceremony at the Energy Department's Sandia National Laboratories, Bush said the new energy policy will go a long way toward weaning Americans off imported oil by encouraging the domestic production of oil and natural gas and greater use of cleaner-burning, domestic energy sources such as nuclear power, ethanol and liquefied natural gas.
"I'm confident that one day Americans will look back on this bill as a vital step toward a more secure and more prosperous nation that is less dependent on foreign sources of energy," Bush said."
Bush Signs Energy Bill, Cheers Steps Toward Self-Sufficiency
Comment #12: wallen said on 4/27/06 @ 12:20pm ET...
Give oversight back to Congress: Vote Democrat!
EXCLUSIVE: SENATE INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN
BLOCKS EFFORTS TO INTERVIEW RICE, TENET,
POWELL AIDES IN PREWAR IRAQ PROBE: 12:30ET
click here
Comment #13: sara swati said on 4/27/06 @ 2:26pm ET...
Back to Rove.....All those testimonies before the grand jury are garbage because Rove has never been under oath. All I read is that he is cooperating. That is very different from being under oath. How can Rove ever be indicted if he has not been under oath? Lying under oath is key. He has been lying. He has probably taken the 5th (amendment, and, well maybe the Jack D's, too).
Anybody? Can anybody show me copy where Rove was sworn-in? Please?
Comment #14: clbrune said on 4/27/06 @ 2:47pm ET...
nolip: I don't know where you are getting a cost for Fitzgerald's investigation at $100 million. According to the GAO, it was $0.7 million after 15 months, to it might be, say $2 million.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/23/AR2005102301028_2.html
On the other hand Ken Starr spent over $45 million investigating Clinton. At least.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/01/starr.costs/
It seems to me Fitzgerald is thorough and frugal. I hope the Republican spin machine doesn't try to spout out that this investigation is a waste of money. That would be laughable!
Comment #15: hpcharlie said on 4/27/06 @ 5:55pm ET...
Nuke 911 Coming on 6-6-6 ??
I just saw this on Cloak and Dagger!
ALERT -- Sears Tower 666 Scenario -- ALERT
(forward worldwide!)
Dear Lenny,
As you know, I've been working on the Sears Tower as a possible target for the much-discussed Nuclear 911 for some time now, and published an article about the prospect in Australia last month. With recent reports of possible terrorist surveillance of the Sears Tower, along with Sunday's Bin Laden tape and Monday's "Al-Qaida" attack in Egypt yesterday, we think the Sears Tower scenario is more and more likely, and are issuing an alert. As a background to the alert, and our briefing this evening, here's the link to the Aussie publication of the "Sears Tower 666 scenario"
Captain May Nuclear Inquest
We termed our scenario "Sears Tower 666" because of the working date for a strike of June 6, 2006, when we think a false-flag attack will be blamed (as always) on the Muslims. Administration propaganda will afterwards link the attack to a desire to punish us on our 62nd D-Day anniversary. A still-unconfirmed report from yesterday, though, makes us think that the day may be even earlier. I attach it below my signature.
Best regards,
Captain Eric H. May, MI/PAO, USA
CO, Ghost Troop, 3/7 Cybercav+
Mission of Conscience / Patriots in Action (see more at the following link:
http://www.cloakanddagger.de/lenny/ghost%20troopapr26.htm
Charlie C.
Dallas Tx
Comment #16: Neerav Trivedi said on 4/27/06 @ 6:16pm ET...
*BREAKING NEWS!!!!!*
Mr. Conyers and Members of Conyers Blog:
There are reports coming from MSNBC and Raw Story that Karl Rove's testimony did not go very well at all in the more than three hours that he spent in the Grand Jury room testifying.
There are also rumors of possible indictments coming down tommorow (Friday) when the Grand Jury meets tommorow. Let us all pray that Karl Rove and whoever else in the Bush Regime, even the President and Vice-President themselves get indicted over this Valerie Plame leak scandal, and helps to put the final nail in the coffin of this corrupt, greedy, and evil admionistration!
Stay tuned for possible indictments against Rove, and another celebration of Fitzmas!!!
Comment #17: Truth_in_action said on 4/27/06 @ 6:40pm ET...
Off topic but back to the Tyler Drumheller thread - Tyler Drumheller is being interviewed on Lou Dobbs Tonight show NOW.
Comment #18: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 6:43pm ET...
#14 cl...I pulled the figure out of my butt...I have no idea how much Fitzma's will cost...but prorate it out to when he's done with his investigation and after they round up the usual suspects and we might be in the neighborhood of $100MM. Money well spent in my book compared with the waste that occurred when Ken Starr was obsessing over his oral fixation.
Comment #19: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 6:48pm ET...
#16 NT...
To Alex Trabek: Alex, I'll take Bush Administration Liars for a thousand...
Alex Trabek: Name a member of Bush's inner circle who is in legal jeopardy?
"Karl Rove has described his three and a half hour meeting with a grand jury as grueling, and is more worried about being prosecuted than ever, MSNBC is reporting."
MSNBC reports Rove believes he is in legal jeopardy
Comment #20: Nolip said on 4/27/06 @ 6:54pm ET...
Pat Roberts needs to celebrate Fitzma's too...he's a liar among liars...
"WASHINGTON – The Chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has denied Democratic attempts to interview Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former CIA Director George Tenet and two former senior aides to erstwhile Secretary of State Colin Powell, RAW STORY has learned.
Intelligence Vice Chairman Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) sought to interview Rice, Tenet and Powell's aides as part of a Senate inquiry into whether public statements by Administration officials about Iraq were corroborated by intelligence information. Recent reports – including one last Sunday from a former CIA chief in Europe – suggest that the Bush Administration was warned that Iraq did not have substantive weapons of mass destruction.
Rockefeller expressed his desire to interview roughly twenty Administration officials in a private letter to Sen. Roberts in January, though the names of the officials cited in the letter were not made public until today. In addition to Rice and Tenet, Rockefeller sought access to Lawrence Wilkerson, formerly Powell's chief of staff, and Richard Armitage, formerly Deputy Secretary of State."
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman rebuffs attempts to interview Administration officials in pre-war Iraq probe
Comment #21: Truth_in_action said on 4/27/06 @ 7:33pm ET...
Congressman Conyers, I just saw your DailyKos post on Truthout.org.
I'll be looking forward to your post here on the subject. I don't want to steal your thunder.
I'm so proud of you. I was so hoping action would be taken. You make me so proud, I'm likely to move to Michigan just to be in your jurisdiction!!!
My hero, Super JC - Defender of the Nation - Able to leap tall Capital buildings in the speed of light!
Comment #22: Truth_in_action said on 4/27/06 @ 7:35pm ET...
I think I meant...
"Able to leap tall Capital buildings in a single bound."
Whatever!
Comment #23: Patriot said on 4/27/06 @ 8:23pm ET...
#21 #22 TIA ... or both :)
Comment #24: DTW 06 said on 4/27/06 @ 10:33pm ET...
#6-7 Nolip,
Thank you for concisely and clearly articulating the tragic economic effect this administration and their rad-con friends have visited on America. Yes, this must not go unpunished, but we can not afford to stop there. The American media should be replaced for deriliction of duty! Who chooses the headlines?
Pay Attention
ask questions
SpeakUp!
QuestionItNow
Comment #25: hpcharlie said on 4/28/06 @ 12:02am ET...
I called Senator Pat Roberts and told the person who answered the phone the following!
I said Senator Roberts is "obstructing justice!" Considering "W'S" RATINGS WERE AT 32%....HE BETTER GOT OFF THE "BUSH WAGON!!" Constituents are way more "smarter" than he thinks..and it's "common knowledge" that he also "fixed Iraq" intelligence..and that he's as guilty as the Administration!
Charlie C.
Dallas TX
Comment #26: Reed31463 said on 4/28/06 @ 12:11am ET...
It just another King Bu$hler snub at congress. It does not matter if the 1978 FISA law was violated, Bush said, "I will continue to violate the law."
Now it doesn't matter if the budget "proclamation" is passed by Congress or not. "By God, they both passed something called the budget bill. Never mind those guys in the House never saw or voted on the final version, they voted on a version, so screw them."
I'd call that, "Proclamation without representation."
