John Conyers, Jr. -- ConyersBlog

Replies: 92 Comments

Comment #1: rainbowsally said on 1/30/06 @ 10:49pm ET...

[Sorry... off-topic? I don't think so. Lend me
your ears... What is the root of all evil?]

The Big Lie: Economics
======================

Exhibit A
~~~~~~~~~

Start a paper company in the year Jesus was born and
increase production 5% per year through the year
2006.

Which would weigh more, Lake Michigan or the paper
output of that company?

Hint:

The weight of the paper would be 1 gm x 1.05^2006

The weight of the earth is only 5.97e30 grams.

Exhibit B
~~~~~~~~~

Under "labor union" at wikipedia we find an
interesting quote from "the father of modern
economics". Here's what he said about
"combinations" which were his term for a "union".
link

The 18th century capitalist economist Adam Smith
noted the imbalance in the rights of workers in
regards to owners (or "masters") in The Wealth of
Nations, chapter 8, Smith wrote:

We rarely hear, it has been said, of the
combinations of masters, though frequently of those
of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account,
that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the
world as of the subject. Masters are always and
everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and
uniform combination, not to raise the wages of
labour above their actual rate…

[When workers combine,] masters… never cease to
call aloud for the assistance of the civil
magistrate, and the rigorous execution of those laws
which have been enacted with so much severity
against the combinations of servants, labourers, and
journeymen.

As indicated in the preceding quotation, unions were
illegal for many years in most countries. There were
severe penalties for attempting to organise unions,
up to and including execution.
----

A tacit combination of the masters. Did I read that right? And is it true?

For those of you who say, "Haven't we been here
before?" my hat is off to you. Well done. That was
not an easy caper to crack, though was it?

Alito is VERY VISIBLE. Not the typical peek-a-boo
player like a president who is visible for a term or
three, and then vanishes again with incredible
immunity and priviledge (intel) that continues well
beyond his/her usefulness.

Comment #2: Rusty said on 1/30/06 @ 11:26pm ET...

If you don't walk out of the SOTU, I'm fresh out of ideas for now, JC.

Comment #3: Nolip said on 1/30/06 @ 11:27pm ET...

These democrats who voted for cloture are anathema. They have neither the intellect nor the balls to govern effectively...may they go down in flames in November and may history show them to be the cowards that they are:

Akaka
Inouye
Cantwell
Rockefeller
Byrd
Bingaman
Lieberman
Nelson (FL)
Nelson (NE)
Baucus
T. Johnson
Dorgan
B. Lincoln
Salazar
Conrad
Landrieu
Pryor
Carper
Kohl

Comment #4: Rusty said on 1/30/06 @ 11:32pm ET...

You've been in the House 40 years, JC, so you know a lie when you hear one. You know where the exits are. You know how to walk.
You know how to explain what you're doing and why you're doing it.

Walk out.

If you don't walk out of the SOTU, I'll walk out of this blog and take my activism elsewhere until this nightmare is over.

Comment #5: Nolip said on 1/30/06 @ 11:35pm ET...

"Well, at least we stood and were counted."

Congressman Conyers,
That comment falls under the category of appeasing the masses but the reality is this; once Alito is confirmed and takes office all hell is going to break loose. Alito will do all the damage that we know he can do and he will do it while supporting an ammoral President while undercutting the very fabric of the Constitution.
There wasn't enough blood on the Senate floor to make history give anyone there enough credit for really taking a stand on Alito's appointment. The Democratic party not only has no teeth, it has no balls to effectively assert itself to oppose the Bush BS machinery and somebody in the Democratic leadership, including Howard Dean, had better start taking notes because if the Dems don't show that they have the ability to lead effectively, as bad as Bush's poll numbers are, the Dems will still be left out in the cold in November. Today was a day when anyone identified with the Democratic party is ashamed of those Democratic Senators who chose to ignore the people of this nation while they pursued their own individual agendas and voted for cloture on the Alito vote.

Comment #6: Pissed Off American said on 1/30/06 @ 11:49pm ET...

"If you don't walk out of the SOTU, I'll walk out of this blog and take my activism elsewhere until this nightmare is over."

You are now DEMANDING a certain action from one of our few representatives that has shown some guts???

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Oh, and don't forget to take Uncle earl with you.

Comment #7: Pissed Off American said on 1/30/06 @ 11:53pm ET...

"The Democratic party not only has no teeth, it has no balls to effectively assert itself to oppose the Bush BS machinery and somebody in the Democratic leadership, including Howard Dean, had better start taking notes because if the Dems don't show that they have the ability to lead effectively, as bad as Bush's poll numbers are, the Dems will still be left out in the cold in November. Today was a day when anyone identified with the Democratic party is ashamed of those Democratic Senators who chose to ignore the people of this nation while they pursued their own individual agendas and voted for cloture on the Alito vote"

Is this where I take Rusty's tack, and tell you to stop "swiftboating" the Democratic leadership, or should I be shortlipped about it, and just say "I told you so"?

Guess what, Nolip? A number of you owe me an apology.

Comment #8: Ohiodem1 said on 1/30/06 @ 11:55pm ET...

If you read Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman, published in 1962, you will find that this book, which is the holy grail of republicanism, and in reality, the next to the last group of ideas the self-styled Party of Ideas actually had.

In this book Mr. Friedman argues against, among other things: Privatize the National Parks and National Forests, rangelands,etc.; Monopolies are not bad for the economy and really do not exert much influence on the economy; Professoinal licencesure should not be a government function, even for doctors; minimum wages should be eliminated; Social Security should be privatized; the Federal government should initiate a flat tax at 23-1/2 per cent (similar to a recent proposal by a congressman, Republican, of course); and there were quite a few other proposals, including the elimination of all taxes on capital, i.e. capital gains, dividend income, etc.

This is the economic program of the Republican Party and it has been since 1956. The book recorded on paper a series of lectures Friedman gave in 1956). So, the Party of Ideas has not had a new economic idea since 1956. They have had at the top of their agenda screwing the American Taxpayer for 50 years!!!

I suggest that anyone who wants to know what the Republicans are trying to accomplish economically,read this book. It is a clarion call to return America to the time of Lassez Faire Capitalism in 1890, or before we had labor laws, Child Labor Laws, Minimum Wage Laws, no Anti-Trust legislation, Pittsburgh pricing for steel, Standard Oil swindling investors, squeezing out competetors, and generally running roughshod over consumers. Oh, by the way there were no environmental laws in 1890. This is the world Judge Alito wants to turn the clock back to. Oh, by the way, we also had Jim Crow, Lynching, and the Triangle ShirtWaist company fire, in which poor seamstresses were packed into a building like sardines, a one story space had a makeshift second floor installed, and the exit doors were locked from the outside. One hundred-forty-six young immigrant women died when the sweatshop caught fire and they could not leave because the exits were locked.

Triangle Shirtwaist Company Fire

Or child labor:

Child Labor in New Law tenements (New York)

Or stinking tenements:

Old Law tenements

This is the world the Republicans want to return us to. The world of the Taney Court, with its Dred Scott Decision, and other ideas that are repugnant to the Constitution.

You really got me on a roll, Rainbowsally.

Comment #9: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 12:03am ET...

Senate Committe Hearings

Comment #10: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 12:08am ET...

Thank you for hearing our opinions, Congressman Conyers. I suggest we all continue to put pressure on Congressional members to hold hearings, hold this Administration accountable, endorse impeachment. Looks like there isn't much time scheduled in the above #9 for such hearings, and the room hasn't been announced; makes me question the Senate's sincerity on this matter. Time for people to continue pressure, mobilize, organize.

Comment #11: Neerav Trivedi said on 1/31/06 @ 12:16am ET...

I agree with Pissed Off American in what he said in post #7. Had we been doing more than just discussing.......but REALLY taking action, even hardcore action in the event of the nomination of Samuel Alito to the U.S. Supreme Court, what happened today NEVER would have happened. I agree completely with POA on this one, and today is proof of that enough.

POA, I do owe you a sincere apology for all the bad things I have said about you on this blog, as you have been right all along in your postings. I am sorry, and I deeply regret the pain and anger I have caused you on this blog. :-)

If you find it in you to forgive me. You, my friend, are the type of people that we need on this and other blogs to encourage (even whip us) to take activist-type action to save our Democracy from tyrnts such as President Bush, especially in light of this horrible travesty of Democracy on the part of 19 of our own Democrats today.

Comment #12: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 12:22am ET...

As I proceeded home from work, after having learned the news, I just about became despondent.

This day represents the most frightening, angering and sad day for us Americans. The short-term ramifications provide all kinds of "room" for Bush (as though he has not already surreptiously and illegally usurped enough as it is), and the long-term consequences will undoubtedly "undo" progresses of over 35 years, as time goes on. The individual civil rights of us all have essentially been "flushed down the drain."

It is just about incredulous that our "fellow Democrats" -- those 18 of them, could have had "fought" "against democracy."

When I was young, my mother said something that stuck to my gut, she said, "Your family may excuse, your friends may excuse you, but 'life' excuses nothing."

For some stupid reason, the following has been in my head all this evening:

" . . . . Bye, bye, Miss American Pie, drove my Chevy to the levee, but the levee was dry . . . ."

No, I'm not giving up -- just trying to inculcate the "moment."

We have no actual way of knowing how many American individuals "tried" in this effort, not the least of which was our own, but I do not feel our efforts were totally in vain -- we have, nonetheless, "alerted" them that "we are here" and "we are speaking" and that "we will continue to speak," and they, eventually, "will have to listen" to us, WE THE PEOPLE!

Comment #13: Vyan said on 1/31/06 @ 12:24am ET...

The War Isn't Over

Today we accomplished something incredible. The Netroots, a lose coalition including the Young Turks, Air America, Thom Hartmann, Ed Schultz, Raw Story, DKos, Democratic Underground, Huffpost and Firedoglake managed to swing 20 or so votes in the Senate from sitting on the sidelines to supporting a Filibuster of Judge Samuel Alito. We did it with blood, sweat, tears and passion. The worst thing we can do is let that passion go to waste in frustration and despair.

This was merely a test of our potential. Most of these sites and resources barely existed a year ago, none of them were hear two years ago. From nothing - we shifted 1/5 of the Senate.

That is HUGE!

The last thing we can do is stop now. We should consider this is excellent dry run. There will be many other issues that need to be addressed in the future, the full investigation of Katrina and it's aftermath, accountability for $Billions that have been wasted lost and squandered in Iraq, the elusive Phase II inquiry, what really happened in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, the Secret Detention Centers and of course, the NSA Domestic Spying program.

Most importantly, our "leaders" came to us for help. Both John Kerry and Ted Kennedy recognized our potential -- we need to remember how pivotal that shift from beltway insider wisedom to Netroots empowerment really is.

Tonight and Tomorrow, we need to keep up the calls, faxes and emails. Tell every Democratic Senator who supported the filibuster that we appreacate them, tell Dems who didn't to watch their backs because now, were watching them - and hammer each and every Moderate Republican (Voinovoich, Snowe, Hagel etc) with the *FACT* that Alito and his support of the Unitary Executive is so great a danger to the delicate balance of power in our Republic, that we just might tumble into neo-facism.

We've just barely begun to let ourselves be heard. We have just begun to build phone, email and fax contacts lists. Just begun to assemble boiler-plate counter spin talking points. The right wing has had 20 years head start and practice at this, but we can catch up. We can beat them.

Just watch us.

Vyan

Comment #14: Neerav Trivedi said on 1/31/06 @ 12:25am ET...

Rusty:

Your view that if Mr. Conyers and other Democrats do not walk out of the State of the Union Address tommorow night, you will walk out seems a but too extreme. I hate to see you leave this blog, as if it was not for you, we would not be where we are now in this blog.

There are other ways to express anger and outrage over the "weakness" and "wimpiness" of the Democratic Party that are much more constructive than leaving a Congressmen's blog in protest to his inaction. Look at POA, I think he has the right ideas on what to do, as well as other fellow bloggers here (i.e. calling, faxing, and e-mailing members of Congress your opinions at thier offices). Please reconsider what you are saying and what you are planning to do.

I understand that you are angry and fustrated at the Democratic Party.......we all are, but hang in there and keep fighting, and in the end, if there is some hope left, we will prevail!

Comment #15: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 12:27am ET...

#3 Nolip, do you (or anyone) know if there were any Republicans who didn't vote for cloture? I would like to know if there's any crazy chance we could still get their "NO" votes; a "yes" for cloture doesn't necessarily mean a "yes" for Alito. Should we be giving up on this already? Am I being terribly naive? Or just insanely idealistic?

Comment #16: Pissed Off American said on 1/31/06 @ 12:29am ET...

"If you find it in you to forgive me."

Sorry Neerav, I am afraid to forgive you. Five minutes from now you will undoubtedly be tearing my head off.

Lets just leave it at; We BOTH are damned dissappointed that Alito is apparently in.

Comment #17: sanitysojourner said on 1/31/06 @ 12:30am ET...

Just want to weigh in on walking out of SOTU: please don't.

Leaving would simply open up the door for the bobbleheads to yammer about how the dems "don't even listen." I wouldn't given them any fodder.

Art Garfunkel, whose criticism of reagan was legendary, was challenged about showing up when invited to perform for reagan at the WH. Garfunkel's response has stayed with me. He said, "No matter what I think of the person who serves as president, I will always respect the office of the president."

However, I will be watching very carefully to see who claps.

Comment #18: Alma said on 1/31/06 @ 12:33am ET...

I think we all need time to regroup and figure out our next move. We worked so hard on this. It's heartbreaking, and Rusty was a lot of the driving force behind our efforts. You did a great job Rusty. Like you said, at the start there weren't any senators for filibuster, so we did make a difference. Just not enough. I know I've been alternating between disappointment, depression, anger and frustration. We all need to stay on board and do whatever we as individuals and/or groups think will work for us.
At this point I will be happy if the dems can just refrain from clapping (except for things about the troops) at the SOTU.

Comment #19: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 12:34am ET...

Vyan, I totally agree. We've shown so much strength, and we're exhausted and let down right now. I encourage anyone who has an ounce of energy to channel our rage into finishing this fight. I'm still emailing letters tonight, my computer willing.

Whether we win or lose this one tomorrow, I'm joining the ACLU, contacting Ralph Neas, researching all progressive blogs; pressing Congress for IMPEACHMENT hearings. We have a lot left to do, we didn't stop being citizens today; we just need to refocus. I'm very proud of what we accomplished, there's more to come!

Comment #20: Alma said on 1/31/06 @ 12:49am ET...

Feline, The only 3 that abstained from voting on cloture were Chaffee, Hagel, and Ensign. Chaffee has said he is voting against Alito, I don't know about Hagel, and Ensign was in an accident today and didn't make the vote. I think there are still a few that haven't given their intent yet.

Comment #21: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 12:58am ET...

I still think the easiest way to get grounds for impeachment is to catch them accepting a bribe, and performing an official act in exchange for it.

I believe that is why the Bush White House is trying to suppress information and obstruct justice regarding White House ties to Abramoff a confesed bribery conspirator. It is not if, but when Bush gets impeached.

Comment #22: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 1:05am ET...

My assessment, based on the numbers of declared intent on C-SPAN:

Republicans
NO - Chafee - send a thank you
Undeclaired - Snowe -
Yes - all others

Democrats
Undeclaired
Bayh
Cantwell
Dorgan
Landrieu
Murray
Rockefeller

Democrats
Yes
Byrd
Conrad
Johnson
Ben Nelson (NE)

All other Dems - No

That means we would need to turn around 4 more Republicans who have (according to C-SPAN) declaired YES, and turn around the 4 Dems who have declaired YES, as well as persuade the undeclaired Dems and Snowe.

Is this feasable? Is anyone recommending this? Should I just act on my conscience at this point, as we asked the Democrats to do, despite the daunting aspects of it?

Comment #23: Pissed Off American said on 1/31/06 @ 1:12am ET...

"I believe that is why the Bush White House is trying to suppress information and obstruct justice regarding White House ties to Abramoff a confesed bribery conspirator. It is not if, but when Bush gets impeached."

Uh uh. Impeachment IS NOT so written in stone as you imply. DO NOT fall into that trap. Too many times now I have seen huge issues, such as the DSM, quickly fade into oblivion. Good God, there is a GAO report out there that ADMITS to a corrupted presidential election. And impeachment would require a focused and unified effort on the part of our Democratic leadership. Do you REALLY expect to see such a miracle? And don't forget, we have an AG that is little more than an advocate for Executive abuse of power. No, impeachment, if it is ever to occur, is an uphill fight that makes this Alito thing look like a petty snit. And don't forget, if things get too hot for Monkey Boy, all he has to do is hand us another trifecta, courtesy of the big bad Al Qaeda boogie man.

Comment #24: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 1:21am ET...

Feline #22 - I do not recommend it, it does not look feasible, but I commend you if you try.

I know that Byrd is a member of the Gang of 14. How about the others on both sides of the aisle.

It would be a kick in the ass if Roberts got an "Up or Down Vote" (something the R's denied Harriet Meiers) and LOST.

Yeah, call them. I expect the vote will go about 41 or 42 against.

If the vote is 42, that will be a 20 vote improvement over Roberts. This is significant.

Alito will make a solid bloc of 4 right wing votes on the court. The next opening will be even more important.

We should work on two things:

1. Impeach Bush - This will deny this radical the chance to nominate the next judge.

2. Elect Democrats. Our side still seems befuddled about how to be an effective minority party, so we should end their confusion by making them the majority again.

Comment #25: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 1:28am ET...

POA - No argument about how hard it is to pull off the Big I. Treason requires two witnesses, and High Crimes and Misdemeanors is kind of vague, not very well defined.

Bribery is out there in black and white as a disqualying crime. Everyone knows what bribery is, and if it can be proven, say a military contractor needed a war started so it could earn 4 or 5 billion, and then the president ginned up a case for a war and then bought 50 warplanes as the quid pro quo. Then you have grounds that are easy to prove if you have all the elements of the bribery statute. Not naive, the criteria are just so much easier to make than any other cause.

Out.

Comment #26: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 1:45am ET...

Ohiodem, thank you for your feedback and assessment of the Alito situation. It looks as though no other websites are mobilizing tonight, I suppose my emails or calls would be acting on my own conscience.

On the subject of impeachment, Bush openly admitted on television in front of millions of viewers that he had privately "authorized" the NSA domestic spying program, without authorization from FISA and Congress (he "briefed Congress, heh, heh"). While Gonzales and others have said Bush's authority was granted by the Patriot Act, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle, judicial scholars and acting judges have overwhelmingly disagreed with those assertions. Arlen Specter said that impeachment could be a remedy for this situation, and I intend to press him on it.

Comment #27: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 1:51am ET...

POA, with all due respect to your insights and understandable skepticism; you are very good at pointing out what won't work, what won't happen. I would very much like to know if you have any suggestions on a course of action at this point, any suggestions for Congressman Conyers as he has requested. Do you endorse any of the suggestions made here about organizing in the future; do you have some ideas about how to try to set democracy back on course?

Comment #28: nomad said on 1/31/06 @ 2:42am ET...

I cannot believe how 18 Democrats could have failed to understand how crucial it was to stop Alito from reaching the Court! I have never made so many phone calls, emails, Faxes on any one issue alone. And for what? That used to be effective! It used to make an impact!

Congressman Conyers, I want you to find out HOW THESE 18 DEMOCRATS WERE TALKED OUT OF THE FILIBUSTER, WHETHER THE WHITE HOUSE BRIBED THEM, THREATENED THEM, PROMISED THEM FAVORS IN RETURN! I just can't think of any other reason!

Supposedly, these Democrats were thinking about their re-election chances, especially in red states! How does that explain Bingaman - the Democratic Senator from my home state. HE KNOWS NEW MEXICO IS ONLY "RED" BECAUSE IT WAS STOLEN!!! It voted BLUE, for God's sake! It would still vote BLUE if the race were run again! I know that by native instinct and so should he!

I knew getting this country back would be a long, uphill slog. Now, my friends, it has become VERTICAL!

Comment #29: Rusty said on 1/31/06 @ 4:15am ET...

POA,

My post was addressed to Congressman Conyers. He asked for our thoughts and opinions on the SOTU. I gave him my opinion and informed him of my thoughts.

If I ever want any advice from a DoD son of a bitch like you, I'll ask for it. You have never blasted Democrats on this blog because they aren't doing enough, you are blasting them because you're a DoD operative.

Admin,

Thanks for being a potted plant the last two months. I hope someone waters you now and then.

Neerav,

Bush and the GOP are LIARS. No one in the corporate media or in the entire Congress will call them what they are--LIARS. Their LIES enable them to trample the truth and shove their fascist agenda down our throats. Yet no one in Congress confronts them about their lies, which is the foundation that enables them to commit their crimes, block investigations, and destroy anyone who stands up to them.

Average Americans like us have been fighting and struggling to be heard for SIX YEARS. What do we have to show for it?

NOTHING.

WHY?

Because no Democrat in Congress will do something as simple as calling a GOP liar a LIAR, or will walk out of a reeking propaganda spectacle like the SOTU. That wouldn't be considered POLITE. It wouldn't be considered RESPECTFUL!

So let's all be POLITE while we wade through rivers of blood and watch the earth being poisoned. Let's all welcome a psychotic DoD operative into this blog while one of us who contacted senators 400 times in one week is lectured to by that bastard about supporting JC and told to not let the door hit him on the way out.

I have never been so sick and tired of the stupidity of people in all my life. Washington D.C. is a shithole ruled by corrupt tyrants, but if I ask the best leader we have to take a symbolic stand against them at the very time it's so desperately needed to reignite the ZEAL of demoralized progressives, I get ignored, lectured to, or attacked.

Comment #30: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 6:19am ET...

HI John.

You wrote
----
And if nothing else, we got Chafee on record on the
wrong side of this issue
----

And Byrd too. His cover is now completely blown.

That is particularly painful, but by now I have to
say, "I should have known." :-(

"Nie Wider" -- Post-Hitler Germany

It means "Never Again." And they meant it. I wish
we did.

Let their sacrifice play cost them their jobs.

If you are from a state (Like Byrd's W. Virginia) vote Republican, if necessary. Get read of them as
they reveal themselves.

The blame game is on, and we don't need to take flak
for those on the other side.

It will all eventually fall apart so let's make sure
we are innocent when reality hits the fan. We can't
afford to have these Byrds in our nest any longer.

I still love Byrd, and appreciate what he's done for
us. But he's apparently unable to fully repent and
the rot has reached his core.

His prayer has been answered. His eyes have seen
the glory.

And he's on the wrong side.

Comment #31: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 7:01am ET...

To Ohio dem and feline.

Thanks for the posts and the statistics.

Seems to me these Senators that voted wrong (truly
WRONG) on the filibuster have really placed their
chips. The traded our democracy for their jobs.

So it may not be as simple as handing the majority
back to the dems, because as you have noticed dems
seem oddly incapable of catching a ball--even when
it's placed firmly in their hands.

After watching this for twelve years the coincidence
theory loses weight.

These guys could be replaced by republicans and it
would be our net GAIN because of the blame game
that's going on in politics, the psy-war in
debates.

Look at ths posts just on this blog?

"What's wrong with the dems."
"When will they get some balls."
"How can they be so stupid."

Okay? You've said it yourselves and you've read it
from others, now let's make the answer to the puzzle
a LEGAL topic so we can discover it.

Get a mirror. There's the fool.

This has been going on since the beginning of
the republcan revolution.

Jan 17, 1995 very near the beginning of the
Republcan Revolution is here. Some assembly
is required.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/
B?r104:@FIELD(FLD003+h)+@FIELD(DDATE+19950117)

The ddate field is yyyy/mm/dd

Get RID of the bad ones. The blame game is coming
and as usual Republicans will try to blame us for
what they themselves did.

And history takes 10-20 years to clarify these
errors and by then the lie is part of a new
generation's base assumptions and the previous
generation finds it inconvenient to listen.

The slanders persist.

That's how it will go again unless we eliminate
our BAD players. Let them pay for these BAD
decisions with their own jobs for once.

You can bet they heard us. They failed this
generation and the next in broad daylight. And
worse, the failed the US Constitution.

They think they're so smart.

Is having the CIA try to sell grenade launchers to
the Kripps abuse of executive power?

You think I'm kidding.

So the Senators think they're pretty smart,
outsmarting us sweet, innocent, dummies who keep
voting for them all the time.

But haven't they read...

"You whose light is darkness, how great is thy
darkness?"

So right now we need to start making ourselves
innocent...

Comment #32: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 7:15am ET...

To Rusty.

Battle <> War.

Be disgusted, but don't throw the baby out with the
bath.

Some walkouts are voluntary purges.

Just some ideas to kick around.

As far as I'm concerned you are certainly welcome
here and your ideas are as important as anyone elses.

Don't get that wrong.

If anything gets done it may have to be us that does
it.

Convince your neighbor.

If you can't do that, how much right do you have to
tell others what to do?

And it goes kind of like that. It's even WORSE than
you imagine, isn't it?

So let's put our backs into it. Congress has just
created a boulder so large even they can't move it.

Lend 'em a hand.

Comment #33: Nolip said on 1/31/06 @ 8:13am ET...

Coretta Scott King passes...another champion for our civil rights, while our rights continue to be eroded by today's lawmakers...

“A new provision tucked into the Patriot Act bill now before Congress would allow authorities to haul demonstrators at any "special event of national significance" away to jail on felony charges if they are caught breaching a security perimeter.

Sen. Arlen Specter , R-Pa., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sponsored the measure, which would extend the authority of the Secret Service to allow agents to arrest people who willingly or knowingly enter a restricted area at an event, even if the president or other official normally protected by the Secret Service isn't in attendance at the time. ”

Hidden Patriot Act Provision Would Jail Demonstrators On Felony Charges If They "Breach Security"...

Comment #34: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 8:33am ET...

Mostly to Rusty, but to All.

So they landed a good punch. What are you going to
do, sit there and gripe about it?

No.

Go back on the offensive, Rusty. You know as well
as I do that their attack-only strategy is the only
way they can win... they IGNORE the good hits. But
they aren't the only ones in the room.

Your points DO count, even if they ignore them
because others ARE watching. So "form" as well as
"content" count. Maybe John is too heavy on form,
you my friend, are heavy on content. There's a
balance there, no?

Here's what I want to say.

Regroup and get BACK ON THE OFFENSIVE.

Let the blame rest where it belongs this time, and
if Alito is up there on top of the mountain, there's
not much chance of him hiding now, is there?

Let them regret this, Rusty.

This is serious stuff and you are a valuable member
of this nation's thought-stream. Make the best of
even a loss. Take your hint from reality. Quickly
recover and never sit there on the mat waiting for a
count down because what we are working for is the
HOPE of a true USA.. one that has NEVER BEEN TRIED.

Ready?

Offense again...

Here's the leader of an article you might be
interested in. It's another big fire and this
doesn't have a deadline. We can pick it up any time
we want to. Maybe now would be a good time for you.

Just check out the names below first. Then see if
your wounds don't start healing again... rather
quickly. :-)

---- excerpt
Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax + 9/11
Times Square action
Tuesday Jan. 31 below at bottom.

link

January 30, 2006
Global News & Press Release Distribution
Experts Claim Official 9/11 Story is a Hoax

Scholars for 9/11 Truth call for verification
and publication by an international consortium.

Duluth, MN (PRWEB) January 30, 2006 -- A group
of distinguished experts and scholars, including
Robert M. Bowman, James H. Fetzer, Wayne Madsen,
John McMurtry, Morgan Reynolds, and Andreas von
Zuelow, have concluded that senior government
officials have covered up crucial facts about what
really happened on 9/11.

They have joined with others in common cause as
members of "Scholars for 9/11 Truth" (S9/11T),
because they are convinced, based on their own
research, that the administration has been deceiving
the nation about critical events in New York and
Washington, D.C.

These experts suggest these events may have
been orchestrated by elements within the
administration to manipulate Americans into
supporting policies at home and abroad they would
never have condoned absent "another Pearl Harbor."

----

We can't all work on the same fire at the same time. There are so many of them.

So let's say "We've got this fire under control, Rusty".

Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't. But...

Apply yourself where you are needed and can do the
best for all of us.

AND STAY IN TOUCH!

You will anyway... our hearts bleed in unison,
friend.

Comment #35: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 8:42am ET...

Pissed off American wrtote:

----
A number of you owe me an apology.
----

You got it, POA. I'm sorry. And I'll apologize for the others as well.

Now let's figure out what important.

You already know. That's obvious enough.

If you don't know how to take a hit and stay on your feet, watch John.

IMAGINE WHAT HE HAS TO ENDURE!

So...

Ready to get back to work? See my note to Rusty. You might also enjoy another raging conflagration to explore.

[No, I'm not John in disguise. If you missed the Republican Revolution you missed a lot but you can still see how Conyers handles himself from time to time.]

This has been a paid (to John) political advertisement.

John: I told you more thanks were in the mail... and more to come. and more and more and more...

A++ for form.

And POA, Rusty and others. You guys get an A++ for content. Both are necessary.

Think about it.

Congress would turn into a madhouse in an hour if I were in Congress. Gar-an-teed.

You should see what happens in Rush/Coulter fan forums at yahoo.

It ain't pretty...

Comment #36: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 9:14am ET...

A Map For Those Who Are Lost

If you want to stay on the Alito fire, you'll need a
map.

And I'll bow out of this thread after this post.

Here's the Preamble of the Confederate Constitution.
There's more but if you aren't convinced by just
this, I doubt the rest would do you much good. But
Article 1, Sec 9, just two lines answers the
question I pose below.

http://usconstitution.net/csa.html
Preamble

We, the people of the Confederate States, each State
acting in its sovereign and independent character,
in order to form a permanent federal government,
establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and
secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our
posterity -- invoking the favor and guidance of
Almighty God -- do ordain and establish this
Constitution for the Confederate States of America.

----

They got their divine "quidance" but isn't "favor" a
bit out of line?

[Are you "convinced of sin" yet? Let me know when
you are...]

Sincerely,
Rainbow's Ally

Comment #37: DTW 06 said on 1/31/06 @ 9:14am ET...

Conyers Bloggers: Check for SOU gatherings in your community.

Following is a reminder about an event in Metro Detroit.

The State of the Union Watch Party is tonight. Watch the State of the Union AND the Democratic response in a room full of activists. And raise money for Democratic Congressional Candidate in the 11th District, Tony Trupiano.

What:
State of the Union Watch Party - hosted by Tony4Congress2006.com

When:
1/31 at 8pm - ?

Where:
Marvaso's Italian Grille
6581 N. Wayne Road
between Ford Road & Warren)
Westland, MI 48185

Cost:
$15 (includes light buffet & non-alcoholic beverages)

RSVP:
NanMelke@Tony4Congress2006.com
or Nan Melke, 734-674-7327

Comment #38: DTW 06 said on 1/31/06 @ 9:24am ET...

#2 - Rusty - You remind me of my Mother. She refuses to watch any Bush speach, because she gets disgusted. Well, how can we expect to change things if we don't even know the other sides talking points?

The best competitive coaches know that in order to win, one needs to study the opposition. We need to know their playbook better than they do and come up with a counter strategy.

The old cliche of "the best defense is a good offense" is BS! The best defense is a great defence and a managable offense. Look at past Super Bowl winners if you have any doubts. Let's defend America by doing what the neocons do only better. We have the facts on our side. We just do a piss poor jobs of speaking in a voice that touches the American soul. We need to Keep It Simple, Keep It Strong, Shoot Straight, and Don't Take Any Prisoners. Any questions?

Pay Attention
ask questions
Speak UP!
QuestionItNow

Comment #39: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 9:48am ET...

Sorry... one more.

SOTU = State Of The Union.

To John:
An evil tree is to good fruit as a bad process is to a politically correct conclusion.

True or False?

That's my thoughts about the SOTU.

Rush made my "politically correct" analyses (definitions based philosophy) famous... after first twisting it so it made no sense.

But that is how POLITICALLY CORRECT worked before it was catapulted into outer space.

I may tell you how my aluminum foil hat got famous later, but it was a liberal group that did that.

Unbelievable? But true!

Today seems to be a day for ego trips.

That's mine.

I'm famous! And still nobody knows who I am except the NSA.

'Scuze me for a sec.

Dear NSA.

You say if I'm not fer you I'm agin you? You say I'm unpatriotic? A traitor.

You say I am an "enemy"?

I say, "It is you who say I am."

[Ping!]

Who, pray tell, is the lawless man?

Comment #40: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 10:53am ET...

From the World Can't Wait Org.:

"John Conyers, US Representative (D) from Michigan who has been looking for grounds for impeachment in Congress has now signed the Call for The World Can't Wait - Drive Out the Bush Regime"

This evening, there will be a huge protest: STEP DOWN BUSH

Protests are now planned in 64 different cities on Jan. 31, including New York City, Washington DC, Chicago, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. Bianca Jagger, Rev. Al Sharpton, Cindy Sheehan & Gore Vidal are set to speak on Jan. 31, more TBA.

Here's the website once again (you can check to see where there is a protest near you).

WORLD CAN'T WAIT

Comment #41: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:18am ET...

"Coretta Scott King, 1927-2006

Coretta Scott King passed away in her sleep last night at the age of 78. She was a tireless advocate of civil rights and nonviolent protest, and a testament to the notion that a single individual can help to move a mountain.

Mrs. King had a grace and an outward serenity that masked a steel core and a deep faith in justice and individual libterties. She carried on the work of her husband, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., after his assasination on April 4, 1968, and she fiercely guarded his legacy in the years that followed the Civil Rights movement.

She was a pioneer, and a force to be reckoned with, all the while raising her children alone after her husband's death, and yet still finding the time to push forward the work that he had begun. Her legacy will endure, but she will be missed.

"There is a spirit and a need and a man at the beginning of every great human advance. Every one of these must be right for that particular moment of history, or nothing happens."

Thank you, Mrs. King. For showing us all how to fight on in the face of adversity, and to do so with grace and dignity."

Coretta King

Comment #42: Patriot said on 1/31/06 @ 11:25am ET...

What's the situation on the Patriot Act? Is it going to be debated in the Senate on Feb 3? or in the House or in both?

Comment #43: Pissed Off American said on 1/31/06 @ 11:39am ET...

"My post was addressed to Congressman Conyers. He asked for our thoughts and opinions on the SOTU. I gave him my opinion and informed him of my thoughts."

("If you don't walk out of the SOTU, I'll walk out of this blog and take my activism elsewhere until this nightmare is over.")

No, you threatened him with the spectre of your exodus,(with great drama and implied self-mportance), and questioned his "zeal". But hey, thats OK, I am used to you pulling the truth out of Uncle Earl's nether regions.

"If I ever want any advice from a DoD son of a bitch like you, I'll ask for it. You have never blasted Democrats on this blog because they aren't doing enough, you are blasting them because you're a DoD operative."

And here I thought you were pulling stuff out of Uncle Earl's world, when you are REALLY posting from the Twilight Zone.

Now, care to tell us what POSITIVE benefits could be gained from Conyers' walking out of the SOTU??? You advocate an action that is symbolic and counterproductive, while these asses in the leadership roles are making moves like having Kaine, for Chrissakes, doing the SOTU rebuttal??? Maybe you ought to vent by telling these God damned idiots to have the rebuttal done by someone that the American people have HEARD OF, eh???

One thing is for sure, Uncle Earl damned sure didn't coax Reid into an effective leadership role in the filibuster attempt, did he? Nor did Luc Picard manage to beam Alito to the brig.

Look Rusty, not everyone that disagrees with you is the Borg.

Comment #44: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:43am ET...

Patriot,

You are correct, the Patriot Act was extended to Feb. 3, 2006.

I'm still looking for when it will come up, though.

Comment #45: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:58am ET...

Patriot,

I called my Senator's office in D.C. -- they said it would come up before the 3rd, but they don't know what day!

Usually, the activists' groups somehow find things out and let me and their members know these things.

Comment #46: Citizen J said on 1/31/06 @ 12:16pm ET...

Rusty, POA- could we have a cease-fire, please? It'd be great if you guys could just ignore each other, and resist the temptation to flame.

Rusty my brutha, you need a hug. Hell, we ALL do.

We gotta KEEP FIGHTING, people- what other choice do we have? Me, I'm going down swinging.

Comment #47: Jay Lechnyr said on 1/31/06 @ 12:28pm ET...

I would like to hear someone spend a half hour listing all the lies and obfuscations of the past 5 years and then simply tell the public the truth.

That this administration has no credibility, no ethics, no principles, and certainly no conscience.

Why waste our time hearing his speech. There is no association between the truth and the shrub.

Comment #48: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 12:34pm ET...

Rusty, POA - Yes, I agree with Citizen J. Maybe you guys should kiss and make up.

We are all fighting the same battle.

POA, if it makes you feel any better, 8 or 9 times out of 10, your analysis is right. You are not a nut. I have already taken back Troll. I still think you have bad manners sometimes.

Rusty, you are among the 3 best writers here. We would hate to lose you. POA isn't really our problem, George W. Bush and his evil twins Cheney and Rove are. Let's fight together to get rid of the REAL problem.

POA, why don't you gut some Republicans once and a while. We are all aware of the problems of our party, and I am working to fix them. Let's elect some new Democrats who are tough enough and have thick enough skin to deal with the Swift Boating.

In Ohio, Sherrod Brown or Paul Hackett fit the bill. Both have good liberal credentials, and neither will back down from a fight with the right. Same goes for Ted Strickland, who is running for Governor. Two times the National Republican party dumped millions in Red southern Ohio and they couldn't beat him. They then gerrymandered his district such that it takes a drive of 325 miles to get to the county seat of all counties served by his Congressional District. This is quite an achievement for the Republicans to have a 325 mile district in a state that measures 200 miles North to South, and 210 miles East to West.

Comment #49: Alma said on 1/31/06 @ 12:53pm ET...

#47 Jay, A half hour? It would take a lot longet than that.
#46 Citizen J, Totally agree.

Comment #50: Neerav Trivedi said on 1/31/06 @ 1:09pm ET...

I agree that both Rusty and POA should stop fighting on this blog, as this has become a major distraction in our efforts, and has caused us to fight AMONGST ourselves instead of WITH each other, and is why we have not been able to accomplish much lately here.

It's time for a ceasefire you two........enough is enough. Now stop fighting and start working together, as the rest of us are doing, for a common cause.

Comment #51: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 1:18pm ET...

#47 - Jay

I'm with you. Frankly, I can't even bear to look at Bush -- knowing all that he done or not done, along with all his criminal buddies, the sight of him repulses me.

As for what he says -- everything he has ever said is a lie -- usually the "opposite" of what he says is the truth!

~~~~~~~~~~

Here's more on the timing issue with regard to Katrina:

"Katrina’s Paper Trail
How early did the White House know about the levee damage in New Orleans? A look at the documents detailing the timeline—and why the government says it got ‘confusing’ information. . . . ."

Katrina

Comment #52: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 1:19pm ET...

Just heard on the radio that Alito is now confirmed, handing Bush a political victory on the day of the SOTU.

Checked the World Can't Wait website, no event in Columbus. Closest is Dayton, about 65 miles. I may decide to do something locally, hold a sign up in front of the state Capitol building, or something.

Haven't read fully the sneak in added language re: demonstrations at gatherings, seems to be fully intentioned to snuff out dissent on the 4th of July. Imagine that, the Republicans want to suppress dissent on Independence Day, the symbol of our nation's founding which was the ultimate act of dissent in the History of the World.

We must raise hell, do civil disobediance (peaceful) on July 4th. This is a direct challenge to all Americans who value their freedom. This cannot stand.

Comment #53: Citizen J said on 1/31/06 @ 1:31pm ET...

Everyone that needs a lift, watch this:

http://www.thebattleforamerica.com/

Now, let's FIGHT!!

Comment #54: Alma said on 1/31/06 @ 1:40pm ET...

I don't know if anyone posted this yesterday or not. With us all so busy I figure it could have gotten overlooked.
Pentagon investigation of Iraq war hawk stalling Senate inquiry into pre-war Iraq intelligence
Larisa Alexandrovna
Published: January 30, 2006

The second part of the Senate investigation into bungled pre-war Iraq intelligence is still being held up by an internal Pentagon investigation of Douglas Feith, one of the war's leading architects, RAW STORY has learned.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Pentagon_investigation_stalls_Phase_II_of_0130.html

Comment #55: LeslieB said on 1/31/06 @ 1:55pm ET...

Anyone care to wager how long it will take Bush to mention 9/11 in the SOTU? I'm guessing 5 seconds due to al Qaeda's latest tape.

And why is it that bin Laden and Zawahiri, et al, always come out with videotapes at moments that help the Bushies!?

Comment #56: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 2:04pm ET...

Patriot, and others, please check out the link on post#9 Senate Committe Hearings; lots of meetings regarding "security" measures, almost nothing about investigating into Bush's spy crimes, war crimes; some regarding the Katrina response, which is good. I'm concerned that the Senate agenda for next month is more focused on "terrorism". I don't get the impression - except for Representative Conyers - that much is going to be happening on behalf of Truth, Accountability, and Rights of Americans on capitol hill. I hope the media gives some attention to the World Can't Wait events.

Citizen J, thank you for the uplifting words and the link.

Alma, thank you for the Raw Story link; Douglas Feith, I'm making a note of it.

I read a story via AP that the Democratic "NO" vote was the highest of any opposing party in history. Although, it wasn't enough - due to the 4 Dems (Byrd, Conrad, Johnson, Ben Nelson) and the 3 Republicans who sit on the Member Advisory Committe of Republicans for Choice, an organization which solidly OPPOSED confirmation of Alito (Collins, Snowe, Specter). However, I do believe the Democrats are listening, and I don't think it's just because they're worried about the 2006 election. I think they recongnize how rapidly our Democracy is slipping into the fear-mongering pit of the Bush Empire.

Comment #57: Genghis Khan said on 1/31/06 @ 2:13pm ET...

I'm still calling for a unanimous turning of the backs from the Democratic side of the aisle.

That would be more effective than a walkout.

The Democrats should, to a person, stand and turn their backs on Bush. They should continue to do so for the entirety of the Misstate of the Disunion Address.

It is the tradition of Ghandi and of Martin Luther King. It is especially important on today, the passing of Coretta King.

Comment #58: Genghis Khan said on 1/31/06 @ 2:15pm ET...

#48: "kiss and make up"

Dare I say it?

yes, I do..

"Brokeback Blog"

:-)

Comment #59: Citizen J said on 1/31/06 @ 2:15pm ET...

"And why is it that bin Laden and Zawahiri, et al, always come out with videotapes at moments that help the Bushies!?"

Leslie, I'm SURE it's just a coincidence. Uh huh, that.

feline, I wonder if people have *finally* gotten the clue that there's NO SUCH THING as a "pro choice Republican", they simply don't exist- those 3 prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Comment #60: Citizen J said on 1/31/06 @ 2:28pm ET...

Re 58: GK, you just couldn't help yourself, couldya? LMAO

Comment #61: Reed31463 said on 1/31/06 @ 2:29pm ET...

Where to start?

#13 vyan: agreed. Thank you for posting my thoughts.

#10, 19, & 22: feline: on the money, minus murray who committed near the end. Snowe abstained and Chafee originally committed, Reid was also voted "Aye" on final count. Jeffords-"Nay". I love your spirit, ready to tackle the same battle. Save it for now, the rest are demoralized, but not for long once they realize the benchmark of the accomplishment.

# 18 alma: Yes we need to regroup and take away some lessons learned.(See below)

#27 feline: many critisisms, many facts. Never any answers or "true" suggestions, never joins in with our efforts.

#32,34 rainbowsally: "Aye"

#28 Nomad: Correct. NSA spying? Probably, Promises and fear. The carrot and the whip, only the carrot is never given. Landreiu is the perfect example of the ass. She just wants to move the agenda forward. WT..? She's smells empty promises.
=============================================
Reposted from last thread:

I know everyone is disappointed, but this is a good measure of what can be accomplished without any media coverage whatsoever. As a matter of fact, all media coverage made our climb even more uphill.

The battle is mostly lost, but the war is not over. It was a close defeat. If we could have mustered 4 more patriots, we would have won. That's from one or two supporters of a filibuster to 37.

Let's step back take a good honest look. What lessons can we take away?

What did we do well/right?

What could we have done to be more effective?

I think the campaign started too late and media needed to be on board to counter the propoganda.

I think the page set up by Patriot made contacting Senators easy and kinda fun. A little internal competition helped also.

I am going to follow-up with letters to Senators expressing my appreciation or dissatisfaction with their position.

Please add your thoughts.

Comment #62: hpcharlie said on 1/31/06 @ 2:38pm ET...

HOUSTON PD RUNNING NUCLEAR DRILLS!

Should the Neo-Con Agenda take place in the next 10 days....nothing else will really ever matter!

I forwarded this same information to Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee's office in Houston.

This was on Greg Szymankski's "Arctic Beacon" and was also "Cross Referenced" on Cloak and Dagger as well.

Charlie C.
Dallas TX

Army Capt. Eric May Issues 'Red Alert' For Next 9 Days For Texas City-Houston Ar
Posted by drew

All Signposts Lead To Imminent Nuclear Attack In America: Intel Army Capt. Eric May Issues 'Red Alert' For Next 9 Days For Texas City-Houston Area
Capt. May claims to have broken the Illuminati and Bush Cabal's "embedded code" in an effort to beat the neocons at their own nasty game. Capt. May may have thwarted one attempted nuclear attack last July, but says the Bush Cabal is coming back again for a second try.
25 Jan 2006

By Greg Szymanski

The January air is again filled with rumblings about an imminent nuclear attack on American soil, as ominous signs are popping up all over the place indicating the "dropping of the real potato" is right around the corner.

Sources inside the military and close to the action this week warned areas of "nuclear concern" within the next 10 to 90 days include Texas City, Tex., the Houston metro area, Charleston, S.C., Los Angeles, Ca., and Kansas City, Ka.

"I am worried," said Jon Watkins of Texas City. "My family is right in the middle of it. I have asked two police officers to keep an eye out for any suspicious activity during the next 10 days.

"I also am sending a copy to the FBI of the interview I heard today on Greg Szymanski's, Investigative Journal, where his guest, Army Capt. Eric May, presented compelling evidence that a nuclear attack, created by the Bush Cabal, could very well take place on or near Jan. 31, 2006, right here in Texas City."

And From east coast to west, people like Watkins from all walks of life, including military and civilian, are coming forward with stories about "an impending disaster," most of them linking the insidious Bush Cabal pushing the "nuke buttons," not the fictitious and Illuminati-created Al Qaeda terrorists.

Going back to last August, the signs were already obvious that the Bush administration, through Cheney's direct orders to Strategic Command (STRATCOM), had specific plans to nuke Iran "if a nuclear blast occurred on American soil."

See rest of article: www.arcticbeaconlcom/26-Jan-2006b.html

Comment #63: Jay Lechnyr said on 1/31/06 @ 3:15pm ET...

Everyone: Off Topic. Well, it pertains to the SOTU, but it's more of a strategy contribution.

For those who cannot stomach much time at the conservative sites, the conservatives often complain that Bin Laden and Co. always seems to be coming up with tapes at exactly the wrong times. You see, they think it harms them by reminding us all of another republican failure - that of not being able to capture Bin Laden or even to shut down his organization. In other words, they fear that all their efforts are are failing to make us feel more secure. And they fear being blamed for it.

They have a very sore point here. Bin Laden and Co. is now a sliver in their paw and could become the stake in their hearts. We are faced with a mounting body count in Iraq and it seems that we will end up with a government that would do us harm even more than the old regime. Remember, it was the shrub and Co. that cultivated the connection between Bin laden and Iraq. Any kind of failure in Iraq to produce a nation less likely to attack or terrorize United States citizens is the failure of conservatives. The republicans have placed all their eggs into one basket and the eggs are starting to stink. If they fail to produce a kinder, gentler, and most especially a more America friendly Iraq, then all the deaths in Iraq will be for nothing. Already, we are seeing sectarian violence spreading throughout Iraq. The next government is most likely to be Islamic and will probably become extreemist after we leave. In other words, as long as we keep holding conservatives responsible for the results of Iraq, then we are most likely to come out smelling like roses compared to them.

Repubs will counter with the fact that everyone voted for war. But we can say we would never have agreed to it if we were not duped by a conservative administration. We were lied to, and Bush could be held accountable for treason charges even years after he has left office. We're talking treason - a capital offence during war time (read that "punishable by death").
This will also keep the "faulty" intelligence subject alive and well for several more years. And constantly talking about treason charges will scare them out of their wits.

We need to reframe the argument.

Conservatives promised to protect us by attacking Iraq. Instead we have:

A mounting body count in Iraq.

An Iraq that will probably be far less kind towards us than previously expected.

A world more likely to isolate us than to aid us

The second worst human rights record in the world. Second only to China.

An Al Qaida still fully capable of conducting terrorist acts on our own soil (again, in part because of the abu ghraib recruiting bonanza)

Due to the financial drain in Iraq, we have spent only pennies on the dollar to secure our own borders. As a result, our domestic borders leak like a sieve. (the borders issue is also a major sore spot for them as it strikes into their own voter base among those who hire itinerant workers, both legal and otherwise)

A nation far less secure than ever before. (someone needs to start an ongoing poll to see if people feel more or less secure than they were before 9/11)

I'm sure there are more items we can think up. Just try to keep it focused upon security. We need to start hammering them with it. This is the kind of offensive that will get their blood boiling. And hot heads usually say things they should not say - we can rely on that.

Buch and Co. placed all their credibility in Iraq and now they're failing miserably. Conservatives laid a giant rotten egg in Iraq and they know it. We need to smash their faces in it every chance we get and never let the nation forget who led us there.

Just my thoughts.

Comment #64: Marilyn Conner said on 1/31/06 @ 3:21pm ET...

Listen to 2 Radio BROADCASTS (with Greg Szymanski and Capt. May)
on Republican Broadcasting Network - RBNLive

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Greg/0601/20060124_Tue_Greg1.mp3

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Greg/0601/20060124_Tue_Greg2.mp3

Comment #65: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 3:35pm ET...

#52 - OhioDem

I'm sorry there's nothing closer to you. The World Can't Wait org. do have local chapters. (Last week, if I'm not mistaken, they had some blurb on how to establish a gathering in your own community.) At any rate, maybe by calling the local chapter, you could get more information.

Comment #66: DTW 06 said on 1/31/06 @ 3:47pm ET...

JC and Conyers Bloggers,

Check out http://neworganizing.com/

"The mission of the NOI is:

* To train and support a new generation of technology-enabled campaigners.

* To consolidate and disseminate knowledge gained in the field of political technology and online organizing.

* To conduct new research and post-campaign investigations that employ results-focused, systems thinking to make progressive campaigns and organizations more efficient."

I friend of mine has been accepted to this program.

Comment #67: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 4:01pm ET...

Keeping the Domestic Spying Issue Alive

This diary on DailyKos sums up some of my focus and intentions.

Reed, thank you for your feedback and suggestions.

Hpcharlie, thank you for the ArcticBeacon story.

The media bias and the Bush agenda is moving very fast. I intend to make my voice heard to members of Congress who have pushed for hearings on the spying issue/possible impeachment remedy. I feel this MUST BE THE FOCUS OF CONGRESS. If we can get our ideas out there, get some investigations going, get the neo-cons in the White House out, the rest will be possible to deal with.

My blessings go out to Coretta Scott King, her family, friends, and Americans who benefit from her work and legacy. I will focus on being inspired, collaborating, organizing, voicing. I will not be dissuaged or discouraged by the media, this Administration, or any words of doubt.

Comment #68: feline said on 1/31/06 @ 4:23pm ET...

#67, I should have said:

WHEN we get our ideas out there, some investigations going, and when the neo-cons are out of our White House, we will deal with the remaining issues that need our attention.

Comment #69: Patriot said on 1/31/06 @ 4:29pm ET...

#58 GK, thanks for a hearty laugh. I about choked on my fruit juice!

Final talley:
Name Senators Petitions

Alma 155 15
CitizenJ 8 0
feline 36 2
FrostedFlake 34 0
NeeravTrivedi 6 0
Ohiodem1 115 5
patriot 104 3
RalphtheWonderDog 1 0
rdconner 1 0
Reed31463 106 12
Ron 30 5
Rusty 400 12
sanitysojourner 32 8
StLouis 119 0
tahoebasha1 113 8
TheForest 14 0
Truth_in_action 35 7
unspun 29 0
Total 1,338 77

I've cleared it and it's ready to start on STOP THE PATRIOT ACT! Challenge

The Patriot Act extension expires on Feb 3. Tahoe called her senator and was told it will be back in debate before then.

We've had a setback, but we accomplished a lot. Together with other blogs and organizations, we had a significant impact on getting almost enough senators for a filibuster. I don't know how many days we have on this one, I don't know who's doing what.

If anyone knows where this information can be found, please post a link.

Rusty, you are an important to us, to our efforts and to me. I know you are angry and disappointed, more so than the rest of us, I think. You've put so much into the Stop Alito effort, more than anyone else. You pushed us and encouraged us and made us smile along the way. Please stay with us, we'll continue the fight.

I know Mr. Conyers reads what you write and is taking your statements into consideration. I have no doubt that he's even mentioned it to other members of congress. He's the best we have, he's the best for us.

Comment #70: Citizen J said on 1/31/06 @ 4:35pm ET...

"He's the best we have, he's the best for us."

Hammer, meet nail.

CONYERS FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008!!!

Comment #71: Nolip said on 1/31/06 @ 4:37pm ET...

Subject: State of the Union and Groundhog Day

I think as Michael Dukakis devotee now working in Pennsylvania you might
appreciate this homespun Commonwealth humor:

Synchrony of Groundhog Day and President Bush's State of the Union
address:

An ironic juxtaposition: one involves a meaningless ritual in which we
look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, and the
other involves a groundhog.

Comment #72: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 4:38pm ET...

#69 - Patriot

A very nice and thoughtful post by you.

As I stated, my Senator's office (in D.C.) did not know the "day" that the Patriot Act would come up. Obviously, it will be tomorrow, Thursday, or Friday. We'll soon find out.

Comment #73: Frosted Flake said on 1/31/06 @ 5:36pm ET...

Couple things to address.

The good news is, there are twenty five Senators who are Democrats.

The bad news is there are nineteen Senators who say they are Democrats.

The good news is we know who they are.

The bad news is we can't just take them behind the barn and bury them there.

The good news is thier replacements are not so difficult to find these days.

The bad news is we will inevitably be asked to agree that we need these nineteen traitors because they are nineteen, and nineteen is more than none.

This we will be asked, by the nineteen. There is only one correct answer to this request. That answer is, a gaurd dog that protects the burgler from me deserves no gratitude, deserves no affection, deserves no loyalty, deserves no home, unless of course, that gaurd dog hopes to recieve these things from the burgler. It is one thing to just sit there and watch the burgler take my stuff, that's one thing, it is a very, VERY differant situation, to turn on me, because I have confronted the burgler. True Colors have been shown. And seen. It is a very stupid dog that would stick around afterwards, and a very stupid man that would feed him.

I could go on, but there is no need to. We are all familier with the famous quotations of the founding patriots. We are all aware that a sunshine patriot is just a uniform draped upon the frame of a thing that sorta looks like a man. And that a real patriot does not use a uniform to prove he is one.

The topic raises itself, we need to take the uniforms off these dummies and put them on patriots. Some of the nineteen might be facing election this fall. They are first. If I don't get to it first, we need the breakdown of which is in each Senate Class (there are 3). We need to come up with real Democrats to run in those districts. Nominations should be mused. From close at hand there might be such as Dean and Gore, etc. From further afield there are such as Sheehan and Fishback. These spring easily to mind. with a little work, more would appear.

Next topic. Some of us have developed clever little tricks that made us more effective in the last week or so. We should trade and collect these little tricks among ourselves. I found Cliptray.exe by microsoft to be handy when filling out the form to email Senators. Less typing, more point and click. I'd like to be clever,er, if that's a word. Comments?

Next topic. There are several topics that have gone past while we were focused. We need to take a look at them. My nomination for scariest story we havent discussed is this one. The implications are as profound as were the implications of the invention of the spoken word. The means, by which we have just attempted what we have just attempted, that being - to communicate with our Government - are going to be taken away from us. For added emphasis, notice this. Other folks may wish to mention other stories which they feel deserve attention.

Finally, for now, I don't often contribute to politicians. There are so many better places to use money. And John Kerry certianly doesn't need my money, not the way I do. I sent him some anyway. He did good work for me, and just saying thank you did not seem good enough to me.

I appreciate this forum.
Frosted Flake

Comment #74: Frosted Flake said on 1/31/06 @ 6:01pm ET...

Patriot.

1338 plus however many didn't get recorded. That's nice work you have done, and a good idea. It's just me saying, but, thanks.

It probably means more to me to say it, than to you to hear it.

Sorry, no check.
Frosted Flake

Comment #75: rainbowsally said on 1/31/06 @ 6:22pm ET...

Important:
The Fiengold Letter To Gonzales
pdf

One of the questions Fiengold asks is:

The limits, if any, to the Administration's
legal theory that the President has the authority either under the Authorization for the Use of
Military Force or as Commander in Chief to violate criminal laws of the United States. What
other statutes or treaties are being or might be
violated under this legal theory? Would this
legal theory permit surveillance of
communications by U.S. citizens solely within the
United States or the assassination of U.S.
citizens within the United States? Ifnot, why
not?

Gotta put it in this thread.

Ladies and gentlemen...

Stay tuned.

tagline: Camel Lot???

Comment #76: A Concerned Citizen said on 1/31/06 @ 6:57pm ET...

Nolip #71 said: "An ironic juxtaposition: one involves a meaningless ritual in which we
look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, and other involves a groundhog."

It's a very sad day today, but that is too funny. Thank you for the chuckle.

I got an email today that said:

"Bush Presidential Library Destroyed by Flood

Crawford, Texas -- A tragic flood this morning destroyed the personal library of George W. Bush. The flood began in the presidential bathroom where both books were kept.

Both of his books have been lost.

A presidential spokesman said the president was devastated as he had almost finished coloring the second one.

The White House tried to call FEMA but there was no answer."

If you're in the right frame of mind, that is funny too.

It's a sad day though. They are all on the payroll, both parties. They just come out and do everything, right in front of our faces. They aren't even good actors.

Thanks again for a chuckle, because it's a very sad sad day. Money is power and they have all our money, Iraq's money and whomever else they choose to steal from. I think most American's now know what it feels like to have their house broken into and things stollen. That's what is happening/has happened to us all by this corrupt administration.

Comment #77: Nolip said on 1/31/06 @ 7:10pm ET...

So now we live in the Alito era and it will be a couple generations before this plague leaves the Supreme Court, unless there would be sufficient hue and cry among the people of this nation as to the misadministration of the Executive branch as it was exercised by BushCo. How can that be since there are so many who support this corruption, this blight on the body politic, this bush league approach to critical national issues? There are too many examples to cite here other than restate that the war in Iraq is illegal, the economy is a shambles, and the people in the South are still left to their own devices to pick up after our own national tsunamis. Yet, the liars continue to lead and obfuscate and paint this rosy picture while blocking legal efforts to reveal the putrid underbelly of BushCos malfeasance. Still through all the rhetoric and angst, good men and women continue to speak to power and tell the world that this nation is under siege from the Executive branch of our own government primarily through omission than commission. Its to those on this blog and others who continue to speak out, to exercise that right to free speech that is still ours before BushCo and Darth Cheney and Karl "Mein Kamf" Rove take them away for good, that this brief note is addressed.
It seems to be so complex but yet there must be a simple solution to this tragedy that we call Bush. We have a man who continues to pretend to be president addressing the nation tonight and chastising the people of this nation for its dependence on oil while failing to cite his failure to encourage the manufacture of alternate fuels or his unfailing support of the grossly greedy Exxons of the world through his energy policies. Those same policies are leaving a terrible legacy to our children, an unstable environment in our world. The list of stupidity is too long to enter here, yet you all know it firsthand.
To all here carry on. As for me, it's time to exit stage left.

Comment #78: noguns said on 1/31/06 @ 7:18pm ET...

Rep. Conyers, i came to your blog because of your efforts to get to the truth about the "stolen" 2004 election ...

i think one of the first things i said in my email to you is that you are the only person in the Legislature that represents me, and that i consider you, MY Representative in D.C.

that is still how i feel ... i have also stated very clearly, i will not be voting again, until we have paper ballots counted by "REAL HUMAN BEINGS" in the community i vote in, and an organized effort to make sure that all those numbers, in every community across the land; do not change, all the way to the final tabulation ...

so, talk of electing more Democrats is kinda a "moot" point, for someone who thinks as i do.

i have also stated very clearly what i feel our option is .... if you ever reach a place, in assesment of what is happening in D.C., that is similar to my own, and want to create a thread on your blog that is for the exploration of such an option ... i will surely join the conversation ...

till then ... i am reading what you write and will join in efforts you need help from citizens on ...
i sent emails, and signed petitions .... however i did not do them to impress anyone, i do those type of things because it is not about winning, but how you play the "game" that counts to me ...

and this has been a "GAME" in every since of the word as far as i can see ...

WE THE PEOPLE have many options open to us ... for some of those options, we need leadership ... if those fail, we need to begin leading ourselves, knowing that the leaders, will then have to follow us in the direction we chose to go ...

i am with you all the way Rep. Conyers, in my opinion, YOU, are the major representative that will be remembered and most highly respected when the future looks back on this sorry time in American HIS - story, and in HER - story (as in future i am sure "she" will have one too) !

noguns, santa cruz, ca.

Comment #79: cali said on 1/31/06 @ 7:48pm ET...

Congressman Conyers,
I would like to ask Senator Landrieu and others that were affected by Katrina, why they are not OUTRAGED at this. Why is it we never, never, take care of our own country first. This is disgraceful.

( Rice said President George Bush would seek approval for an extra $1.1 billion (£619 million) of aid to Afghanistan next year - on top of the nearly $6 billion (£3.4 billion) already promised by the US.

Comment #80: Alma said on 1/31/06 @ 8:50pm ET...

Patriot, I will try to get to work on letters for the Patriot Act tomorrow. Didn't want you to think everyone had abandoned you.

Comment #81: St Louis said on 1/31/06 @ 9:28pm ET...

15 minutes into the SOTU. He has totally gone over the deep end... make the boogie man bigger and scarier. THIS is his plan? Scare Americans MORE sh***. OMG and they're clapping and shouting. I am living in a parallel universe.
Patriot...I'll write letters @ the Patriot Act, but I'd just as soon go right to work on Impeachment before he gets us all killed.

Comment #82: tahoebasha1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:21pm ET...

Comment #1: tahoebahsa1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:13pm ET...

Folks,

I have just come away from a very positive experience.

I attended the World Can't Wait rally in Mrs. O'Leary's hometown this evening. On top of it, it was terribly cold!

First of all, I would like to tell you how well organized this group is. (Let me add that they pass out pamphlets spelling out Your Rights As a Protester, what to do, what to say, etc.)

They had an effigy of Bush mounted high up on a post of some sort. They had an effigy of the Iraqi picture that we know all too well, i.e., the Iraqi, hooded and wired to his "privates." They had banners, etc.

They had a sign language interpretor for the hearing impaired.

The speakers and one musician totalled about 10. Each speaker was well articulated and did not "miss a trick" in mentioning all the ills, i.e., the war in Iraq, the soldiers, the Iraqis, New Orleans, lies, spying, treason, Alito, etc. These speakers were not your typical "hysterical" speakers, but were well articulated, straight to the point, firm and forthright.

Among the speakers was a father, a father whose son had been called to Iraq, supposedly for six months, but which extended into a year. During the last half of his stint in Iraq, this father went to Bagdad to visit his son and paid an Iraqi (without work) $50.00 a day in order that he be driven to visit his son. He did this every day, until he left. He explained that this Iraqi was glad that Sadaam Hussein was gone, but that it was "time" for Americans to leave! This was in late 2003, as I recall. He said, "If I can make it Iraq, you can make it to D.C. (Feb. 4th, 2006). Fortunately, his son is home.

A young lady, from a small town in Texas, whose sister and brother-in-law were in New Orleans. When Katrina hit, she immediately pled with her school, where she was working, to allow their busses and their drivers to go to New Orleans. She gathered together some 94 drivers and school busses and her husband, who worked for a company that sells water, etc. loaded the busses with water and they left for New Orleans the day after "Katrina" and arrived in New Orleans and were met by FEMA, who would not allow them entrance into the city proper -- saying they needed to check credientials, etc. They spent a total of some 14 hours waiting and waiting, and, finally, FEMA turned them away, saying, or somesuch, that they had no authority. They had spent a total of 17 hours travel time and 14 hours of "detainment" by FEMA.

There was an elderly doctor, who told of the horrible plights of women who had become pregnant, who were suffering innumerable diseases, but had not legitimate solution. He spoke of healthcare for America, etc.

There were others, including a Hispanic alderman, who spoke most poignantly about all of our problems. It just goes on and on.

They spoke of our "responsibility" as American citizens. The same of which we have been speaking about on this blog.

Channel 5 (local) was there.

In the finale, people grabbed the rope that was around Bush's neck, and on the third round of "BUSH STEP DOWN, people pulled on the rope and he was toppled to the ground, and, then, people were hitting him with their shoes, gloves, whatever.

As my mother said, your family may excuse you, your friends may excuse you, but "life" excuses nothing. Those words rang so true tonight!

I am totally exhausted, haven't eaten yet, but I will tell you that it was all worth the participation -- I saw AMERICANS at their best!

If any of you can possibly make it to D.C. for this February 4th thing, please do. You will not regret it.

Do I think that Bush & Co. will "STEP DOWN" -- absolutely not. But actions such as these puts "him" and "them" "ON NOTICE."

Thanks for bearing with me.

Comment #83: Ohiodem1 said on 1/31/06 @ 11:46pm ET...

Tahoe, congratulations for braving the Chicago cold. I went to boot camp at Great Lakes (in Waukeegan) during the winter and I know it gets damn cold up there.

I am on board for July 4. Bear in mind, the new piece of the so-called patriot act now seeks to make demonstration on gaterings of "National Significance" a felony. Is a 4th of July parade an event of national significance? This seems to be unconstitutionally vague, but who cares about the constitution any more. The measure was sponsored by Senator Arlen Spector.

I hope the events in 64 cities around the country were just as successful. Tahoe, thank you for all of your hard work. OD1

Comment #84: tahoebasha1 said on 2/1/06 @ 12:22am ET...

#83 = OhioDem

Thank you so much, OhioDem. I appreciate so much your thoughts and assessments.

You confuse me a little, however! If I recall correctly, you were not exactly for "July 4th" because of the "Swift Boating" etc. (a couple of posts back).

"Bear in mind, the new piece of the so-called patriot act now seeks to make demonstration on gaterings of "National Significance" a felony. Is a 4th of July parade an event of national significance?"

The Patriot Act is equally as frightening as all else that we know. And we need to do everything in our power to defeat it. But, realistly, if we were ALL to go to Washington on the 4th of July -- what are they going to do? -- arrest and "Guantanamo" (sp.) every single one of us?

Somewhere, we have to drop any and all "fear" and fervently "forge" ahead.

Comment #85: Frosted Flake said on 2/1/06 @ 5:12am ET...

Three things on my mind.

This story.

TahoeBasha1 comment#84 "Somewhere, we have to drop any and all "fear" and fervently "forge" ahead."

True. Consider, can one expect to be well recieved by the oppressor one is resisting? Stepping back, is that resistance not a reaction to trouble? That is to say, if we were not in trouble already, would we be having this conversation? I'm all for staying out of trouble, but within reason, else I would just sit on my couch and watch as our troubles grow. And then stay there because they had grown.

Nolip #77 "To all here carry on. As for me, it's time to exit stage left."

That seems pretty clear. Still, I hope I misunderstood. After all, we just got Noguns back.

I appreciate this forum, which consists largely of those who post on it.
Frosted Flake

Comment #86: rainbowsally said on 2/1/06 @ 5:29am ET...

Sorry for misreading some of you.

The quote attributions aren't automated here and I got confused.

To Ohio Dem.

Some of the citations you mentioned sound familiar. Not sure how to spend my time though. I think it might be more important to focus on common knowledge and simple principles though becaue our culture now is now made up of as much Disney Productions as it is the classics (like The Cat in the Hat), with zero parts Constitution.

The democrats really stepped into their own sh*t when they let the courts start overstepping the Constitution and it will bite us hard.

IF the Republicans meant their promise to hold to the literal Constitution, things would actually get better. We are now at less than 50% compliance with just Art1 Sec 8, for example.

But the acid test is whether their word is their bond and the "term limits" are up in 2006.

The writing is on the wall.

But as long as democrats, liberals, and Disney fans refuse to look at this country's soul (the Constitution) and remain complacent to look the other way while the black magic of the CIA "works in mysterious ways", they continue to jeopardize our welfare and now, by letting it get into the hands of the gun runners and predatory lenders, their own welfare as well.

(Evidence: more trickle down, anyone? Where did the buffer between the rich and the poor go?)

Simply stated, the democrats really just asked for a whipping, and they got it.

Two problems: They were not playing with their own chips (money, civil rights, etc.) and they threw away our power (the People's House).

One solution: The beating they got was a bit too severe. Justice would now be to show the world who gave them that beating.

CSA is here.
http://usconstitution.net/csa.html

There's your "state soverignty" unveiled. There's your God in government revealed.

And the battle between management and labor is also there in its full hideous glory--understandable by anyone. You don't even have to know about the school of the americas, the united fruit and the overthrow of a democratically elected capitalist country, or the many many brutal dictatorships we supported in our anti-communist zeal.

So I would recommend the short course on economics.

Amendment 14, Section 4.

And when they tell you (and they will!) that Amendment 14 is unconstitutional, forget the oxymoronic quality of such miasma.

Tell the lying bastards to try a new trick. Honesty. Tell them to repeal it if they don't like it. (Look at their docs, if you like though. Keep your eyes on the dates on those complaints and who did all the complaining.)

Then the world will know...

Cheaters prosper.

But to attribute that to God, well... God of THIS world, maybe.

In any case, thanks for the note Ohio Dem.

Run the numbers at the top sometime.

It's fun.

Comment #87: Ohiodem1 said on 2/1/06 @ 8:58am ET...

Tahoe #83 - Correct assessment. I did say that we must be prepared for being swiftboated if July 4 is chosen. I do not have a problem with this, as anyone who stands up to the Radical Right will be swiftboated. We just need to be prepared for it.

Given that the R's are attempting to put this blatantly anti-freedom clause in the so-called patriot act, and it can be interpreted as intended to protect public officials and penetration of a security barrier around, say the president, but as I see it, and I have not seen the actual text of the bill, it can also be interpreted as any location that may have even minimal crowd control barriers, keep out tape, or traffic diverters, this may be interpreted as a location behind a "security barrier".

Now, if you have a local cop or prosecutor who may be overzealous (that is a Republican word for sure, as the prosecutor who has indicted any R is overzealous), the order may go out to arrest any demonstrator at a fireworks show or holiday parade, and charge them with violation of a federal felony. Remember that federal laws, particularly, a violation of the so-called patriot act (I refuse to capitalize this unconstitutional law) carry mandatory incarceration in federal prison, and federal laws have no provision for parole. You serve your entire sentence.

Having said all of that, if this becomes law, you or I could be subject to arrest and imprisonment for exercizing our First Amendment Right to free speech, peaceful assembly, and the right ot petition our government for redress of greivances. ON THE FOURTH OF JULY!!!!

Of course you and I believe this measure is unconstitutional on its face, and arrest and incarceration may be unlikely. However, the process to have the law declared unconstitutional in our compromised court system may be difficult or impossible. One of my public adminsitration professors (course was constitutional law) said "The Constitution is what the justices say it is". The effort and disruption of your life to fight such a charge, and to litigate it to the Supreme Court (it would HAVE to go to the Supreme Court, because if the government lost, they would appeal, and if you or I lost, we would have to litigate to avoid imprisonment and we both know that the principle of defending the freedom of all Americans is so important that we would have no choice) would be very costly in both time and money,although there woudl be many lawyers who would take a case such as this pro bono, or the ACLU would defend this case.

Wow! That last sentence must be the most poorly written sentence in the history of the English Language. My style is stream of consciousness. Sorry about that.

Based on the above, my thinking now is that July 4th is the IDEAL for Americans who value the freedom that 1 Million Americans died for. Bring it on.

Rainbowsally #86. I am not sure you are addressing me in your first paragraph. Don't worry about follwing all my links. I do not follow all links I see either, as if we all followed all the links, we would never get anything done.

On doing the calculations, you assume that I can understand giant exponents. I have a very difficult time comprehending a number like increasing the deficit by two trillion dollars. This is like trying to visualize the distance to Alpha Centauri. I did once run a calculation of what one Trillion dollars would look like when I read the insulting Republican Marketing Plan on how to destroy Social Security, which was signed by my so-called "representative" Deborah Pryce and "senator" Rick Santorum. In it, they advised using small numbers, and cutesy terms like "nest egg" to describe a retirement investment. They said that people cannot visualize 1 Trillion dollars.

So I figured it out. Consider a football stadium with 100,000 people in it. Now assume that each person in the stadium has a suitcase with $10,000,000.00 (Ten Million Dollars) in it. That is what a trillion dollars look like, and this is how much the administration of George W. Bush, with the complicity of a Republican Congress increased the public debt of the United States of America in just the last two fiscal years. Don't forget that they do not count the cost of running the Iraq war in the budget.

They should be thrown out just on that basis alone.

And oh, they are borrowing from the Social Security surplus that is our retirement "nest egg" that we have paid for with our own tax effort. Look out they are going to apply lessons learned last year and do another frontal assualt on SS this year. They are using the dodge of a "BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION" to perpetrate the outrage this time.

Since I have just blasted the Republican Congress, I will blast them again. The current law relating to increasing the salary of Congressmen and women is that an automatic COLA is granted each and every budget cycle, unless someone introduces an amendment in the budget bill to reject the increase. Congress has taken this raise each and every year since 1999. Here is my read on this. I do not believe that Congress should receive a raise in any year in in which they are capable of balancing the budget. If the balance the budget, they have earned their raise. I urge JC to introduce the amendment to the next budget bill, and to reject the next raise for this reason.

Then I request JC introduce legislation to REQUIRE new legislation and floor debate each and every time Congress chooses to increase its salary.

Uh-oh. I've gone on too long again.

Comment #88: tahoebasha1 said on 2/1/06 @ 10:17pm ET...

#87 - OhioDem

Little late responding -- no time!

I understand your point, I believe. Basically, you are saying that the unPatriot Act could serve in the ways that you expressed in your 3rd, 4th and 5th (it's O.K. paragraph -- I made mistakes in my post, so what the hell -- it just goes to show . . . ).

So far, however, people have already gone to Washington, D.C. to protest and there are more protests planned for D.C. Are you saying that because of it (July 4th) being a holiday, there would be a much more likely chance of enforcement against individuals demonstrating than, say, some other day?

Maybe July 4th wouldn't be such a great day anyway -- Bush probably wouldn't be in the White House on that day, but probably in Crawford, Texas. Or do we care about that? How about his birthday -- 6 July 1946? How's that strike you? What a birthday present!

Anyway, one thing is for sure, we all have to fight this Patriot Act with everything that is within us -- it is by far the most dangerous enactment of all and the implications of it could be so far-reaching as to be mind boggling.

On the other hand, say, if a million people showed up in Washington, what the hell are they going to do?

P.S. If you get a chance, go back to www.worldcantwait.net and check out the reports that have come in from all over the country. Cleveland had an enormous response.

Comment #89: Ohiodem1 said on 2/2/06 @ 10:32pm ET...

I am just saying that if a 4th of July event was designated an "event of national significance" as the wording of the Spector amendment says, if it was actually made into the law, then that could be a justification for arrests to be made under that provision.

That is such an egregious affront to our freedom, and so repugnant to the constitution, that civil disobediance would be mandatory on July 4, the day that is intended to celebrate our freedom and independence. I will be compelled to demonstrate on that day, to protest such an affront.

Comment #90: tahoebasha1 said on 2/2/06 @ 10:47pm ET...

And so, I take it, in essence, you have retracted from your original stance and thinking? Despite your paragraph #1?

Comment #91: Ohiodem1 said on 2/3/06 @ 5:16pm ET...

Tahoebasha1 - You helped me focus my thinking and although I think I said that if July 4 is chosen, we should just consider that it will be used as a propaganda tool against us and we should expect to be swiftboated.

My focused thinking realizes that swiftboating will happen anyway, no matter what battleground we choose. (Battleground of ideas, not literal battlegrounds, for anyone who wants to try to spin that). Given that it seems that our demonstrations may be made illegal in a patriot act sort of way, it then makes July 4 the ideal day to take a stand.

So yes, my thinking has evolved, but I do not think that my general outlook or conclusions have changed. As a result of this more criticial analysis, July 4 looks to be a better day than I first thought. I don't think I ever said, don't demonstrate on July 4. I said let's think it through. I am only one voice, however, and I do not think my opinion should count more than anyone else's.

The planning for an event sometime this summer should proceed, and whoever winds up organizing it will most likely make the final call. If you want to call it a retraction, I am ok with that. Just don't call it a flip-flop.

Comment #92: tahoebasha1 said on 2/4/06 @ 3:32pm ET...

O.K., I promise not to call you a "Fli-Flo." You're just someone who has evolved from one mode of thinking to another! How's that?

And, of course, there's no question about it, whenever we would do it, we'd be "swiftboated," etc.

Speaking of "swiftboating." A friend of mine sends every e-mail she receives to me at work. Two of them just of late were viciously attacking Sen. Kennedy. (I did not read them in their entirety -- I couldn't -- it was exactly the same kind of vicious stuff that was done to Kerry.)

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