Replies: 34 Comments
Comment #1: jmatthan said on 10/21/05 @ 1:37pm ET...
Great news Congressman. Your Ohio report has been fully authenticated by this report.
Cannot understand your implication that raising the subject can get one banned from the blog community.
America is not, therefore, a valid democracy!
Comment #2: Marilyn Conner said on 10/21/05 @ 1:54pm ET...
Congressman Conyers,
I would say that "all of your concerns are valid" and since we will not stop pushing for the truth all will be reconized eventually.
A scratch is better I guess than nothing at all.
I do not have confidence in 'our democracy' but I do have confidence in you, Sir.
All of your blog postings are cross-posted at DU as well, I hope you don't mind.
m
jmatthan,
I am assuming that the Congressman refers to getting banned at dailykos for any so called conspiracy theories..
Now, I could be wrong.
However anything having to do with hacked votes, etc. and 911 truth has resulted in many posters being deleted or banned @ dkos and democratic underground before.
Again, I am assuming and hoping that Congressman Conyers in NOT referring to his blog.
m
Comment #3: Genghis Khan said on 10/21/05 @ 2:11pm ET...
As an Information Technology and Network Security professional, I can say that we in the tech community have been howling about this crap for YEARS (at least since 2000).
The problem is actually *MUCH* worse than the good Congressman's blog reveals. The technical sophistication of the voting machines is on par with an old set of "Lincoln Logs" and is easily manipulated by a 12 year old child with a rudimentary knowledge of computers and the Microsoft Access software program.
Comment #4: Ron said on 10/21/05 @ 2:18pm ET...
" I understand some such discussions can result in a ban from this blog community."
I am curious as to what this statement entails?
Now you say if we talk about the totally crappy voting system,that was installed by rightwing thieves ,and has led to the possible destruction of our right as Americans to decide who represents us is spoken about, we could be banned from the blog's!
Please list those places so I as one will, before I am cast out,tell them where they can stick it!
I have, as Rep Conyers,although probably to much less effective extent, run my mouth ragged ,insisting on a voting system that is truly transparent.
I have written to countless sources,and done my best as a single person to get a fair and accountable voting system installed. My insistence comes from the conviction that the last two presidential elections(Selections) were hopelessly RIGGED!
Without transparency,I am referring to an accountability of our votes cast, the results of any election can not be counted on as being fair trustworthy,REAL.
Facts have proven that certain voting systems have been tampered with,and those results were false. I ask how many of those (S)elections must be redone,because of false results. Do we as Americans ,have to stand silent ,and just TAKE THIS CRAP ?
The number one priority for all of us should be ,to insist that we get a voting system that is fair and accountable.one we can trust, to spit out what we stick into it. Without that type of system ,we can send our democracy down the tube!
Comment #5: Citizen J said on 10/21/05 @ 2:22pm ET...
As we all know, regular posters here have been "silently" banned (Lemon, Doug E, Sandra are just a few) for posting stuff that Admin felt was too "out there" for this forum; ie Israeli conspiracy theories of any sort. I'm not aware of anyone ever getting banned from THIS forum for posting stuff re how the elections in 2000 and 2004 were stolen.
Comment #6: Marilyn Conner said on 10/21/05 @ 2:39pm ET...
I did not know poster were banned here.
I am almost positive that the Congressman was referring to daily kos for example..
Read the comments over there to his diary and as you go further down it is addressed..
Markos and Armando for example don't like diaries dealing with "stolen election" 2004
Here is one comment from dkos.
So, Is Congressman Conyers banned?
Seems to me this is exactly the kind of diary which Kos and Armando were seeking to avoid.
Another poster:
A shame
It's hard to believe there's a ban on this subject, but as Rep Conyers writes:
I would like to suggest putting that discussion aside for the moment (or longer -- I understand some such discussions can result in a ban from this blog community).
Why a ban when as Rep. Conyers writes, this is at stake:
The bottom line is until we make a serious commitment to address the significant security and controls concerns we have regarding our voting machines, American citizens have no reason to have complete confidence in our democracy.
It's kind of weird when the U.S. government becomes a better source on anything than dailykos.
by moon in the house of moe
Comment #7: clbrune said on 10/21/05 @ 4:14pm ET...
Holy cow.
As #3 Ghengis Khan indicates, in this day and age a secure electronic method for recording, storing, and accessing important information (like "who I voted for") isn't difficult.
Conspiracy theories aside, this level of incompetence is yet another illustration of a failed administation. From the bottom to the top, the Republican party and/or ideology is simply a failure of government.
Next you know, Mike Brown will be put in charge of monitoring elections.
Jeesh
Comment #8: Dr Alan H Levinson said on 10/21/05 @ 9:38pm ET...
Don't get your hackles in an uproar. Citizen J is likely correct!! I believe that Mr. Conyers is suggesting that the "banning" that occurred was related to some people's tendency to go overboard with both content, frequency and length of posts. This topic is not restricted, and, as Mr. C points out, NOW has a direction and focus. Lets hope that the result of such a finding will be a catalyst for change.
Alan
Comment #9: Gerry Hiles said on 10/21/05 @ 10:35pm ET...
I have followed the issue of ballot irregularities in the US as best I can and I am glad that here, in Australia, we retain the old methods; but there is something of a side-issue in this all, because we have ended up in pretty much the same situation as you ... perhaps worse ... politically because our nominal "opposition" Labor Party doesn't have even one "John Conyers" and, as a result, even more draconian "security measures" are being rubber-stamped here than in the US.
This relates to the caution given about debating the ballot issue in this blog ... which I assume has to do with commentators possibly being investigated ... Homeland Security and all that..
Hey we are way ahead of you ... a day after I sent an email of strong protest to little johnny coward - our Prime Minister - I got a visit from the Federal Police about a month ago ... not that that is going to stop me protesting, as I told the two detectives (who actually turned out to be quite reasonable blokes).
At around the same time an American citizen was deported for taking part in a protest ... and so it goes, getting worse all the while.
I previously observed that I look forward to the Bush junta being brought down, because then that might pave the way for bringing down the Howard junta here ... please hurry up!!
As regards the voting irregularities: it occurs to me that, given experience here (in Britain too and elsewhere), too much attention to this issue could easily distract from more important and fundamental issues.
The main reasons that Howard got re-elected here was the same reasons that Bush got re-elected, e.g. lying, fear-mongering and lack of accountability/checks and balances/an effective opposition.
Of course I've only scratched the surface, but the point is that, overall, it justn't seem to make any difference what electoral system is in place and I think that the key to understanding - thus eventually making a difference - is to wake up to the fact that NONE of us live in a "democracy".
The plain fact is that our systems are OLIGARCHIC ... how can it be possible to have a meaningful debate when basic definitions are absent? When we are indeed living in an Orwellian world, e.g. endless talk going on, but NO communication, because few really know what the terms of reference are.
Consider all the bluster about "spreading democracy and freedom".
Utter nonsense!! The invasion of Iraq was all about global hegemony, building forward military bases of Empire, eliminating all opposition, siezing resources, imposing an even more extreme version of "capitalism" than exists anywhere else (see Bremmer's dictates) etc. - coupled with pandering to the "rapturist right" (Armageddonists) for their block votes.
I hope you'll all understand that this is not being "anti-American" ... on the contrary really, because I object to the way that the vast majority of Americans are being lied to, hood-winked and sold down the river (as New Orleans has amply demonstrated).
Best wishes to all of you seeking to turn things around.
Comment #10: Gerry Hiles said on 10/21/05 @ 10:49pm ET...
PS
Here we have compulsory voting ("compulsory democracy"!!) and, I suppose, it might be imagined that with everyone voting there should be a different outcome from elsewhere in the world (everywhere else actually) where large numbers of people don't bother. But I have just shown that there is no significant difference.
Comment #11: Nolip said on 10/22/05 @ 6:37am ET...
Received this in an e-mail...can anyone here confirm this????
www.stewwebb.com
Bush-Cheney CIA/Plame case indictments released this morning
Bush orders Fitzgerald fired and espionage indictments quashed
By Tom Flocco
www.tomflocco.com
Washington, DC-October 21, 2005-12:00 EST-TomFlocco.com exclusive-Today
Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald handed over 22 indictments to Attorney
General Alberto Gonzalez, accusing President George W. Bush, Vice President
Richard Cheney and others of espionage, obstruction of justice, perjury and
a variety of other charges in the matter of the CIA/Valerie Plame leak-gate
case.
According to intelligence sources who spoke with federal whistleblowers
Thomas Heneghan and Stewart Webb, www.stewwebb.com Bush then ordered
Gonzalez to fire Fitzgerald and have the indictments quashed and sealed.
Gonzalez refused to release the indictments which have been handed down by
the grand jury and ordered served by a judge, subjecting the Attorney
General to additional charges of obstruction of justice, the sources said.
The indictments confirm our original "Bush-Cheney indicted"
Bush_and_Cheney_Indicted
report on August 2, 2005.
Gonzalez was Bush's former personal White House counsel before receiving a
presidential appointment as U.S. Attorney General.
The move is reminiscent of the "Saturday night massacre" when President
Nixon fired Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox in an attempt to
save his presidency and obstruct justice.
Intelligence sources added that Bush tried to delay publicity about his
attempt to fire Fitzgerald and quash the indictments this afternoon by
ordering a diversion regarding a "Capitol Hill police attempt to disrupt a
suspicious package in a car near the U.S. Capitol."
The move to distract attention from the indictments occurred not long after
the receipt of process by Gonzalez, according to intelligence sources with
knowledge of the events.
While Gonzalez received the service of indictments, Bush was in California
this morning and was scheduled to speak at the dedication of the new Air
Force One pavilion at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in California.
It can be assumed that Bush's orders for Gonzalez to refuse receipt of
process and fire the prosecutor in the CIA leak case were discussed over
the telephone since Bush was to speak at the Reagan Library just a few
hours after the indictments were served.
Bush should have finished his speech at approximately 2:30 pm Eastern time,
and it is probable that presidential strategy sessions regarding how to
prevent the indictments and their criminal contents from becoming public
have already commenced.
It is open to conjecture whether Bush could be arrested in California
before even returning to Washington, given the criminal nature of the
indictments.
An attempt to quash indictments and to fire Fitzgerald may also cause a
constitutional crisis if Bush and Gonzalez continue to obstruct justice and
defy U.S. law and constitutional legal process.
Intelligence sources told TomFlocco.com that the military or U.S. marshals
should arrest Bush, Gonzalez, Cheney and others immediately for their
criminal acts in keeping explosive espionage, obstruction and perjury
indictments hidden from the American people, all of which affects U.S.
national security.
Developing.
www.tomflocco.com
www.stewwebb.com
Comment #12: Bill_o_Carolina said on 10/22/05 @ 10:23am ET...
i don't put much confidence in tom flocco related reporting
Comment #13: GreyHawk121 said on 10/22/05 @ 12:15pm ET...
Off-topic, but I thought you'd like this.
There's a pic of DeLay on DailyKos that's priceless.
I've combined the before and after shots to make a little animorph gif file,
using Morpher.
(send the guy $20 - priceless shareware!)
Enjoy.
Bwah-HAHAHA!
Comment #14: Genghis Khan said on 10/22/05 @ 2:44pm ET...
Interesting find on the Fitzgerald's USDOJ website. If you view the HTML source of the page, you'll find a whole section that is commented-out (it won't show up in your browser, although the code is ready to go for adding content to this hidden section).
What's interesting is the title of the section: "US Supreme Court".
Here's a snippet of the code (with ";" added to the meta-tags so they would display here):
<;!--- BLANK BOX
<;table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<;tr>
<;td colspan="6">
<;table background="images/spacer_003366.gif" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<;tr>
<;td><;img src="images/table_topleft.gif"><;/td>
<;td width="100%"><;/td>
<;td><;img src="images/table_topright.gif"><;/td>
<;/tr>
<;/table>
<;/td>
<;/tr>
I know there is a "US Supreme Court" section on the "Legal Proceedings" page (legal_proceedings.html), but I find it interesting that there is a hidden one on the main page. Seeing as how the rest of the code is *extremely* clean (and well-done, I might add.. very W3C-standards compliant!) it's odd that an entire section would be commented-out as a coding mistake that made it to the live page.
Boy oh boy should next week be interesting...!
Comment #15: Nolip said on 10/22/05 @ 4:32pm ET...
“WASHINGTON, Oct. 22 - The legal and political stakes are of the highest order, but the investigation into the disclosure of a covert C.I.A. officer's identity is also just one skirmish in the continuing battle over the Bush administration's justification for the war in Iraq.
That fight has preoccupied the White House for more than three years, repeatedly threatening President Bush's credibility and political standing, and has now once again put the spotlight on Vice President Dick Cheney, who assumed a critical role in assembling and analyzing the evidence about Iraq's weapons programs."
Leak Case Renews Questions on War's Rationale
Comment #16: tahoebasha1 said on 10/22/05 @ 6:12pm ET...
#9 - Gerry
Appropos your comments and, in particular, Paragraph #11, there is a book that touches greatly on the issues you broach. The book, "Confessions of an Econimic Hit Man," by John Perkins, is a true story of a man who was "covertly recruited by the United States National Security Agency and on the payroll of an international consulting firm . . . . His job was to implement policies that promoted the interest of the U.S. corporatocracy (a coalition of ogvernment, banks, and corporations) while professing to alleviate poverty -- policies that alienated . . . ." He was heavily warned about writing the book. He now writes and teaches about achieving peace and prosperity . . . . You may find it of great interest.
Comment #17: Jo said on 10/22/05 @ 8:28pm ET...
Sorry, off topic, but lots of fun.
www.jibjab.com has a funny film, big boxmart
Also,
www.awfulplasticsurgery.com features Delay mug shot
Also,
More fun with Delay mugshot at politicalhumor.com
Comment #18: noguns said on 10/22/05 @ 11:21pm ET...
#3 Genghis Khan ... am i "wrong" to keep saying that a paper ballot will not fix anything ... that it is in the central tabulators where the numbers are being changed and that the only hope is for each community to have (just one example of how) the math students of all the local high schools and / or the PTA watch their respective community totals and then if those numbers do not change all the way to the final tabulation in absolutely every community in the country ... that only then would we have an election ?
noguns sheehan, santa cruz, ca.
Comment #19: nomad said on 10/23/05 @ 4:40pm ET...
On the White House's war rationale: There is a new book out (or very soon to be out) by Scott Ritter - the UN weapons inspector - called Iraq Confidential - that I think many of you would find interesting. There was a short interview with him (by Seymour Hersh) this a.m. on Air America about the book. There is also a related article at < http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7896BBD4-28AB-48BA-A949-2096A02F864D.htm >
About the voting technology. I should hope we are not going back to the same machine manufacturers that provided the 2004 elections. That would be like asking the poisoner to make a better-tasting muffin. I have heard that many countries still use paper ballots and hand counting because computers are too easily hacked and programmed by people that know a lot about them - beyond what most of us can manage. Any thought given to getting technology from a manufacturer outside the country? Australia has been working on computer voting systems with open source codes. I would hate to see the process become too mechanized and technical - once it is beyond my understanding, I don't trust it.
Comment #20: tahoebasha1 said on 10/23/05 @ 8:33pm ET...
ON A POSITIVE NOTE
California participants and the Governor have passed and signed a pioneering voter verified paper audit trail bill.
Rep. Rush Holt will be introducing H.R. 550 the which encompasses the following:
(1) establishes a requirement for a voter verified paper ballot created
for every vote cast;
(2) establishes a mandatory uniform national standard that states that
the voter verified paper ballot -- the only record verified by the
voter rather than the voting machine -- is the vote of record in the case
of any inconsistency with electronic records;
(3) provides Federal funding to pay for implementation of voter
verified paper balloting;
(4) requires a percentage of mandatory random audits in every state,
and in each county, for every Federal election;
(5) prohibits use of undisclosed software, wireless communication
devices, and internet connections in voting machines;
(6) is required to be fully implemented by 2006; and
(7) protects the accessibility mandates of the Help America Vote Act.
I have already responded to this with letters to my Senators and Congressman, and have received a response:
From Sen. Obama:
“There are a number of solutions to this problem that have been proposed since the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (HAVA) spurred the spike in states' purchase of DREs. Because DREs can positively impact elections because of their speediness and accessibility for disabled voters and voters who speak languages other than English, many experts believe it is worthwhile to keep them around, albeit with significant safeguards. The most popular of these solutions is the concept of "voter verifiable paper trails (VVPT)," where a voter gets a paper receipt of his or her vote which becomes the primary record of that person's vote. The receipt is deposited at the polling sites and is then used in the case of an audit. Other solutions include prohibitions on internet connections at polling sites and "open source codes," which means that the program codes for DREs are published so that they are accessible for public inspection and thorough security checks.
While H.R. 550, which was introduced by Rep. Rush Holt and adopts the VVPT approach, has yet to reach the House floor for a vote, the bill has gained considerable support in the past several months, and the Committee on Rules and Administration just recently had its first hearing on VVPT. It is my hope that increased attention to this problem will lead to an agreeable solution, and H.R. 550 certainly seems like a step in the right direction. The confidence of our voters and the integrity of our electoral process is at stake, and I think the principles of our democracy require us to take action.”
~~~~~
I feel strongly that this is a step in the right direction – if you feel the same, "The Pen" has a "Make Voting reform a Reality In Congess Too" site for expressing your concerns on this issue, or you can simply write your Senators and Congressman asking and/or begging them to endorse the Rush Holt H.R. 550.
Comment #21: Gerry Hiles said on 10/23/05 @ 10:38pm ET...
None of you seem to have got the point of my earlier post.
Sad!
Of course I do not claim to have "the answers", but I do have some good questions, e.g. whether or not we live in "democracies"?
I proposeed that, in fact, we live in oligarchies ... but no one has strayed, one iota, from the myth of "democracy" ... no one has sought to examine anything of any substance ... no one has thought to see why I reason that oligarchy rules the day.
Maybe none of you know what "oligarchy" means ... which would explain a lot.
If that is so, then just go to such as the Collins Dictionary.
Comment #22: tahoebasha1 said on 10/23/05 @ 11:29pm ET...
#21 - Gerry:
I do not believe we are living in a democracy -- at least the democracy "as we know it." I happen to agree with you that "oligarchy rules the day." But, I don't think, we, Americans, are willing to throw our hands up and say, "that's the way it is," nor am I suggesting that that is your notion either. Contrarily, I think we, Americans, are clinging desparately to the democracy we know, and, I believe, is in the heart of most Americans. How this whole trajedy began of straying seems to have been "cajoled" by those "few" making up the "oligarchy" whether it's here or there. Question is: How do we arrest this obvious "disease?" And how do we bring the "earth" home to the "people?" I know that once something of this nature begins, it's not easy to bring it to a "halt." Nonetheless, we must stay focussed on our aims in the other direction and, somehow, hopefully, we can find a way to STOP the insanity, otherwise, only "destruction" remains.
Comment #23: Gerry Hiles said on 10/24/05 @ 3:05am ET...
Well, tahoe, perhaps the first thing to realize is we (all around the world) have NEVER lived in a democracy and that it just ain't a good idea anyway.
Plato, over two millenia ago, realized that "democracy" was akin to boarding a ship and then voting for a "captain" on the basis of his charisma, rather than his ability to actually navigate.
To the extent that pseudo-democracy pertains in the USA, Australia and elsewhere, that is why you ended up with Dubya and us with little johnny coward.
Until those of us who are capable of reason and "biting the bullet" become willing to face reality - the clear light of day - the oligarchy and the lumpenproletariat will rule the day.
Lumpenproletariat? No I am not a Marxist ... but that is quite a good term to apply to the millions of born-agains and other millions of poor-folks who voted for Dubya and little johnny coward.
What is lacking is an opposition which actually spells out why things are going down the tube for the great mass of humanity, e.g. in America, why the great reforms of FDR are going down the tube.
I encourage all of you to read J K Galbraith.
I am only a very little bloke, compared with him, so all I can do is make suggestions.
I pale in comparison with Plato/Socrates ... but I DO know what they were going on about (and Galbraith, for instance).
They (and others) did know how to "bring the 'earth' home to the 'people'".
The trouble is that virtually no one took any notice ... so now it has become VERY hard.
The hardest part will be the "average person" giving up his or her own car.
Just imagine "the average" American woman not being able to drive her SUV to the local supermarket, the local childcare centre, the local gym and so on.
All hell will break loose, unless someone sensible explains why it is impossible keep on pursuing "I WANT".
Get back to me, if you want a fuller explanation.
Comment #24: Gerry Hiles said on 10/24/05 @ 7:11am ET...
Here is some encouraging news:
http://www.rense.com/general68/impeach.htm
Comment #25: Neerav Trivedi said on 10/24/05 @ 8:13am ET...
The idiotic Zogby Poll shows Bush's ratings going UP from 43% to 45%!!!!
When all of the other poll sare falling at or below 40%, how come the Zogby Poll is showing Bush's ratings going up?
Comment #26: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 8:39am ET...
“WASHINGTON, Oct. 23 - With a decision expected this week on possible indictments in the C.I.A. leak case, allies of the White House suggested Sunday that they intended to pursue a strategy of attacking any criminal charges as a disagreement over legal technicalities or the product of an overzealous prosecutor.
Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, is expected to announce by the end of the week whether he will seek indictments against White House officials in a decision that is likely to be a defining moment of President Bush's second term. The case has put many in the White House on edge."
Republicans Testing Ways to Blunt Leak Charges
Comment #27: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 9:34am ET...
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald appears to be laying the groundwork for indictments this week over the outing of a covert CIA operative, including possible charges of perjury and obstruction of justice, lawyers involved in case said on Sunday.
Top administration officials are expected to learn from Fitzgerald as early as Monday whether they will face charges as the prosecutor winds up his nearly two-year investigation, the lawyers said."
Lawyers in CIA-leak case say charges possible this week
Comment #28: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 10:03am ET...
Bush is frustrated...that will surely make the men and women from this country who gave their lives, as well as their families, feel a whole lot better.
Bush aides are a reflection of the man who leads them...no more...no less...
“WASHINGTON - Facing the darkest days of his presidency, President Bush is frustrated, sometimes angry and even bitter, his associates say.
With a seemingly uncontrollable insurgency in Iraq, the White House is bracing for the political fallout from a grim milestone that could come any day: the combat death of the 2,000th American G.I."
Bushies feeling the boss' wrath
Comment #29: Genghis Khan said on 10/24/05 @ 11:26am ET...
NoGuns:
A paper ballot is a lot harder to fake than the current crop of electronics. Sure you might get isolated regional fudging, but there is a *much* higher likelihood of being discovered, and much less likelihood of the malfeasance affecting the national results. This type of behavior has been occurring since voting began.
The problem with the current crop of electronics is that someone can easily manipulate results across the nation with *ZERO* chance of discovery.
Comment #30: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 1:46pm ET...
It's Still Miller Time at the 'Times'
What, exactly, does a person have to do to get fired at The New York Times? In a busy weekend of rebuke, key players at the newspaper criticized reporter Judith Miller -- but all fell short of calling for her dismissal. Then, late Sunday, she attacked Bill Keller and Jill Abramson.
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/columns/pressingissues_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001350272
Comment #31: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 1:49pm ET...
Jeralyn Merritt: A Kinder, Gentler Libby
“The New York Times Sunday profiles Lewis "Scooter" Libby. While it's intended to be a humanizing piece, and it does accomplish that goal, it's also notable for possible clues as to what Libby is planning.
Clue One:
"Mr. Libby, 55, might face indictment in the next week on charges of misleading investigators in the case or trying to cover up the extent of his involvement, lawyers involved in the case have said."
Clue Two:
"But friends and associates said Mr. Libby is not at heart a political animal. They suggest that whatever legal problems he faces from his role in pushing back at criticism by a former ambassador, Joseph C. Wilson IV, of the administration's use of pre-war intelligence about Iraq's weapons programs, he was acting not as a political hatchet man but in defense of ideas and policies he believed in."
The article makes no mention of any liability Libby may have for improperly disclosing that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. It's just the cover-up. By denying he was a "political hatchet man" and maintaining he was acting from his own principles, Libby's team is signaling that Libby will maintain that no one, including his boss Dick Cheney, instructed him to discredit Wilson or out his wife.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051023/cm_huffpost/009339;_ylt=A86.I0PuHlxDJiwA9yP9wxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--
Comment #32: Nolip said on 10/24/05 @ 1:53pm ET...
Throwing Miller and Libby Overboard is Not Enough
“You could get whiplash reading the New York Times these days. After all, it was less than a month ago when Judy Miller was released from jail and whisked off by Arthur Sulzberger to the Ritz Carlton for a steak and a martini "served in a gorgeous glass." The paper that was even scooped on covering her release was feting and celebrating her.
Now the Times has clearly turned on the woman its editorial page had painted as a modern-day Rosa Parks. Ridding the Times of Judy is a good start, but the Times' problems are bigger than Ms. Run Amok. In the same way that however hard the White House tries (and as Josh Marshall points out, it's trying very, very hard) to turn Libby into Mr. Run Amok, it will not succeed in pinning it all on Scooter. The crisis at the New York Times is about much more than Judy Miller, and the crisis at the White House is about much more than Scooter Libby.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/throwing-miller-and-libby_b_9348.html
Comment #33: noguns said on 10/24/05 @ 9:35pm ET...
#29 Genghis Khan ... boy did my command of the language fail me again ...!!!
what i meant to ask you, is just getting the voting machine to spit out a paper verification ... is not what will help the situation ... because the theft is happening in the central tabulation area and only if we watch that, can we be sure we have an election ...
i was trying to get to, in my first posted question to you; is that only with a paper ballot can we really get a vote, and we would still have to watch the tabulations all the way to the final tally ..
noguns sheehan, santa cruz, ca.
Comment #34: Vyan said on 11/4/05 @ 12:29pm ET...
Mark Crispin Miller, a professor of media ecology at New York University has a brand new book about the 2004 election, Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election, and Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them). The book touches briefly on the Judiciary Committee Report of data from Ohio, but mostly it talks about how many different tactics of voter fraud and disenfranchisement were accomplished all around the country, not just in Ohio.
Some of Mark's previous work includes Boxed in: The Culture of TV, The Bush Dyslexicon: Observations on a National Disorder, and Cruel and Unusual: Bush/Cheney's New World Order. He writes regularly on his blog, News From Underground, and just yesterday participated in a question and answer forum on Democratic Underground.
