John Conyers, Jr. -- ConyersBlog

Replies: 281 Comments

Comment #1: Patriot said on 7/19/05 @ 11:14pm ET...

As long as there is life in my poor old fingers, I will continue to work on the TIME LINE PROJECT and continue to bring seek the truth.

I will not be distracted.

Comment #2: NO DUmmie said on 7/19/05 @ 11:28pm ET...

Eight townhall meetings, all over the United States, even!

Colour me impressed, Rep. Conyers.

Comment #3: Rusty said on 7/19/05 @ 11:33pm ET...

Chairman Conyers,

Thank you for the update, your thoughts on Bush's nominee, and your inspiring leadership.

The corrupt GOP is a disgrace to America. They are staggering under the crushing weight of their lies, and are making an ugly spectacle of themselves.

We will destroy this monstrous cult that used to be an American political party, and nothing on this earth is going to stop us.

Comment #4: Rusty said on 7/19/05 @ 11:36pm ET...

The GOP feeds off the support of millions of little fools like NoDUmmie who will bark like trained dogs when they are told to bark, roll over like whores when they are told to roll over, get on their knees when they are told to get on their knees, and swallow when they are told to swallow.

Comment #5: NO DUmmie said on 7/19/05 @ 11:38pm ET...

"We will destroy this monstrous cult that used to be an American political party, and nothing on this earth is going to stop us."

Sieg Heil!

Sounds like Fascism to me, bro.

Peace.

:o)

Comment #6: NO DUmmie said on 7/19/05 @ 11:40pm ET...

#4

Nice retort, filled with "facts" all all.

:o)

P.S. I was born and raised a democrat. Not a moonbat.

Comment #7: Rusty said on 7/19/05 @ 11:40pm ET...

"We will destroy this monstrous FASCIST cult that used to be an American political party, and nothing on this earth is going to stop us."

Comment #8: NO DUmmie said on 7/19/05 @ 11:42pm ET...

Someone call the WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHm bulance.

Comment #9: jmatthan said on 7/19/05 @ 11:49pm ET...

I do hope that Congressman John Conyers will read out this tragic letter to the British People from this Iraqi lady, Iman AL-Saadun, when the town hall meetings and house parties are being held on the 23rd.

You can see the text on my blog at

http://jmpolitics.blogspot.com

There is also a link to the original in both Arabic and English.

Comment #10: Gina said on 7/19/05 @ 11:51pm ET...

JC said: But the important lesson is that we not let the Supreme Court announcment distract us from the ongoing struggle

You don't trust the Special Prosecutor either?

JC said: We have learned all to well that this Administration can and will manipulate the media to its advantage.

The media follows the shiney thing. They go for the money shot, doubtful they are trying to help the administration.

Comment #11: Rusty said on 7/19/05 @ 11:53pm ET...

And Jesus said, "Thou knowest the commandments, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother." Matt. 19:16-30.

Jesus 5
GOP 0

Comment #12: Gina said on 7/19/05 @ 11:54pm ET...

Joe Wilson 0

Comment #13: NO DUmmie said on 7/19/05 @ 11:54pm ET...

#10

Like before the election of 2004?

Dan Rather and all?

Oh wait, that was the fiberals doing that....

Not BushHitler.

Comment #14: NO DUmmie said on 7/20/05 @ 12:01am ET...

#11

Who supports abortions?

Game, set and match.

Comment #15: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:01am ET...

Rusty you hypocrite, with a post like #4 then to quote scripture, give me a break.

Comment #16: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:03am ET...

"And when evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick." Matthew 8:16

Jesus 55,000,000
GOP 0

Comment #17: NO DUmmie said on 7/20/05 @ 12:06am ET...

#15

Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

;o)

Comment #18: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:19am ET...

Hi Gina,

According to you, I'm a hypocrite if I quote scripture.

We're all sinners.

If sinners can't quote scripture, then scripture will never be quoted.

So what is scripture for then, in your opinion?

Comment #19: NO DUmmie said on 7/20/05 @ 12:21am ET...

Repentant sinners learn from scriptures.

You obviously didn't.

Comment #20: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:23am ET...

It's hypocritical to call names and incinuate sex acts, then quote scripture as a way to "one up" those you disagree with. Big time.

Comment #21: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:26am ET...

Gina,

What do political whores falling to their knees in worship of Bush and drinking GOP Kool Aid have to do with sex acts?

Comment #22: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:28am ET...

Gina,

Which political party USES CHRISTIANITY to "one up" those they disagree with?

Comment #23: NO DUmmie said on 7/20/05 @ 12:29am ET...

#22

It is called faith, something you would enver understand, obviously.

Comment #24: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:33am ET...

I'm a Christian. I have faith. I understand faith. I also understand the fundamental importance of truth. Unfortunately, this GOP White House and its GOP congressional leadership abandoned the truth long ago, which is why I despise them.

Comment #25: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:39am ET...

You better be right huh. What are you going to do when none of your dreams come true? When the Special Prosecutor doesn't file charges and Bush doesn't get impeached? Then what?

Comment #26: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:39am ET...

The swallow comment was what I was referring to, but anyway I'm trying to raise the level a bit.

Comment #27: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:41am ET...

Hi Gina,

Please answer #21 and #22 for me. Then I'll answer your three questions in #25. Thank you.

Comment #28: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:45am ET...

I assumed you meant something else by your swallow comment, if I was incorrect I apologize. You look at conservatives a certain way and if they have a faith in God that offends you. Harry Reid's web site talking about faith offends me. It's part of the nature of politics.

Comment #29: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 12:50am ET...

Faith in God doesn't offend me, but the GOP's 30 year history of demonizing liberals offends me.
Big time. (If I may borrow one of your knockout punches)

Do you think Jesus was a liberal or a conservative?

Comment #30: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:54am ET...

I think liberals have demonized themselves. Social programs that keep people dependent on the government, always pointing the finger at the other guy instead of cleaning up their own house, taxing the rich to give to the poor (which only serves to give less money to support capitalism which is what needs to survive in order for people to have jobs, make goods). I mean what's the incentive to try and work hard for a better paying job if all it means is a higher tax bracket which the government is going to take more?

I think Jesus is God.

Comment #31: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 1:03am ET...

NO DUmmie (ND) You still haven't answered my question about whether or not you are a veteran. Are you a veteran? If you are, what service, what conflict?

If you are not a veteran, then you need to get yourself down to a recruiter and enlist. The NeoCons need you to secure their oil supply in Iraq and maybe soon Iran.

You have the mind of 'cannon fodder' and believe me the militlary loves that.

I really would appreciate it if you didn't come into the discussion(s) with your one liners dumping on the other bloggers. You want respect for your beliefs? You will never get it that way. Be civil.

Comment #32: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:12am ET...

Gina,

Those are all outdated, 40-year-old charges that were true in the 1960's but have no relevance now.

Yes, Jesus is God, and when he was on this earth he was crucified by the right wing political establishment, in a land INVADED and OCCUPIED by that era's superpower. He was feared because he was perceived as an political insurgent. He wasn't, he was a spiritual insurgent, but the righty wing establshment mocked, ridiculed, and killed him anyway because they didn't want to hear the truth.

Are you listening, right wing attack machine?

If Jesus were here in the flesh today, and preached to America what he preached 2000 years ago, what do you suppose the GOP attack machine would be saying about HIM?

Comment #33: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 1:15am ET...

Nah the ACLU would say he shouldn't be preaching in public and get him thrown in jail.

And those are not 40 year old charges, they are relevant and as one of the majority, I'm telling you that you should listen to me.

:)

Comment #34: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:17am ET...

Hi GCM,

I haven't thanked you yet for your service in Vietnam, so:

Thank you for your service in Vietnam, you guys have always had a special place in my heart.

Have you read, "They Marched Into Sunlight: War and Peace Vietnam and America October 1967" ?

Comment #35: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 1:25am ET...

Dear Honoarble Mr. Conyers and Blog

Please acept my gratitude for your devotion to the USA, and everything it stands for.

I am not perveyor of untruths, however, I am going to make my previous post on this blog become false.

Though I do not agree with several people on here, I apprecviate the opportunity to learn from them.

Then there are those who really seem to not have anyting usefull to post.

Out of frustraion from those posters, and the Administrator of this blog, I was under the impression that this blog is not in search of the truth.

I personally do not know if Mr. Conyers is part of the problem or part of hte solution. Maybe both.

I do know that if it were not for Mr. Conyers I would not have been one of the 560,000 to sign the first DSM letter to President Bush.

If it were not for Mr. COnyers I would not have learnde from this blog about, DSM, PNAC,alot of good movies, and a whole lot of other usefull information.

I know that there are many good people who read this blog and do not post,and there are several good posters too.

After some thought I came up with a few questions for all of you.

Do Republicans really want to take away rights that are derivitive and not specifically mentioned in Life, Liberty,Property, Pursuit of Happiness?

Why do we pledge allegiance to the flag and the Republic for which it stands? Are we a Democracy, A Republic, or a Democratic Republic?

Aside from extremists on both sides of the Party Politics spectrum, don't most Americans want the smae thing?

Don't all good Americans want to conserve the Self evident human rights of Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness?

Was Ben Franklin correct when he stated:something like "Those who would sacrifice essential Liberties to obtain a little temporary security , deserve neither Liberty, nor Security"?

Have any of you observed that dishonesty is the main cause of all our problems?

How can we the people expect our representatives to tell the truth if we the people can not even expect the truth from ourselves?

Do you aggree or disagree with Senator Diane Feinsein's statemetn: "The attacks on September 11 made abundantly clear that our strengs, our rights and our freedom, made our country more vulerable".?

What do you think she means by "Our priority should now be to balance the protection of American lives with American values. I believe that we must allow law enforcement to use the tools given them in the USA Patriot act."?

Seth Cowen

Comment #36: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 1:32am ET...

Rusty, you're welcome. I haven't read the book and I usually avoid reading about Nam as I have enough memories of that political trap our defenders of the Constitution got us into.

Gee I hope I didn't chase NO DUmmie (ND) away. I was hoping for a more civilized, more informative discussion with him.

He definately supports what is going on in our country and I would like for him to list the things that the GOP has done for him.

He must be up to his tail in cash because the GOP only takes care of the uber rich and the corporations. They don't give a rat's tail about the middle class.

For that matter those miserable sons of female dogs don't give a rat's tail about veterans either. That,is criminal.

They talk that BS about how we "must support our troops" and they wrap themselves in the flag but then they collectively shove it up veterans tails with their current budget.

Comment #37: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:34am ET...

Gina,

I'm not a liberal. I explained that to you on June 28, 2005 at 3:15 AM.

The GOP would attack Jesus with the following talking points:

1) This man Jesus is homeless and is too lazy to get a job.

2) Jesus consorts with prostitutes, so he is not a supporter of family values.

3) Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the church, so he is a violent radical.

4) Jesus tells people to "love your enemies" so he is a friend of the terrorists.

5) Jesus said, "blessed are the peacemakers" so he is obviously a UN loving,liberal moonbat.

6) Jesus said, "those who live by the sword shall die by the sword."
What's he going to defend America with, SPITBALLS?

I have about 3 hours more of GOP talking points about that homeless moveon.org moonbat Jesus to share with you, but perhaps you get my point by now.

Comment #38: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 1:35am ET...

Do Republicans really want to take away rights that are derivitive and not specifically mentioned in Life, Liberty,Property, Pursuit of Happiness?

What do you mean specifically?

Why do we pledge allegiance to the flag and the Republic for which it stands? Are we a Democracy, A Republic, or a Democratic Republic?

We are a Representative Republic

Aside from extremists on both sides of the Party Politics spectrum, don't most Americans want the smae thing?

I think so, but people have different ideas on how to achieve it.

Don't all good Americans want to conserve the Self evident human rights of Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness?

I would say yes.

Was Ben Franklin correct when he stated:something like "Those who would sacrifice essential Liberties to obtain a little temporary security , deserve neither Liberty, nor Security"?

Again I would say yes.

Have any of you observed that dishonesty is the main cause of all our problems?

Dishonesty and dependence.

How can we the people expect our representatives to tell the truth if we the people can not even expect the truth from ourselves?

I think if we understand that everyone is human we would be better off.

Do you aggree or disagree with Senator Diane Feinsein's statemetn: "The attacks on September 11 made abundantly clear that our strengs, our rights and our freedom, made our country more vulerable".?

I would disagree.

What do you think she means by "Our priority should now be to balance the protection of American lives with American values. I believe that we must allow law enforcement to use the tools given them in the USA Patriot act."?

I would be interested to know what she considers "American Values". Law enforcement is an important part of fighting terrorism, but not the only part.

Comment #39: Happy said on 7/20/05 @ 1:37am ET...

It appears to me that many comments on this page aren't very productive. I am sure that there are topics upon which we can all agree. There must be some common ground from which we can all join together and celebrate America, freedom, our right to disagree with one another, and common human decency.

Some people are very quick with the facts, some are better at dealing with the emotional components of a situation. If we work to respect each other and understand our differences, maybe we can begin to develop a healthier society.

I think that is why many people have a hard time with Washington DC and federal politics. There is a massive breach of understanding between many in power and the people. It's no one person's fault. It's a systemic failure. It is going to require a lot of patience and people working together to fix it. Forcing accountability for the actions of government officials may be one important step in the process.

NO DUmmie, sorry about our quibble yesterday. Does your screen name stand for NO depleted uranium?

Thanks for what you do Rep. Conyers.

Comment #40: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 1:44am ET...

#35 Seth, your question and statement: Do you agree or disagree with Senator Diane Feinsein's statement: "The attacks on September 11 made abundantly clear that our strengths, our rights and our freedom, made our country more vulerable".? If you believe that, then the "terriorists" have won the war. Our rights guaranteed by the Constitution are under serious attack by the NeoCons and their partners in this crime, the GOP and the extreme right wing Christians. The Patriot Act is that attack. It must be stopped or at least revised to respect the Bill of Rights.

FYI, there are a couple of California State reps who are investigating the California National Guard for creating and using a secret unit who have been spying on Californians/Americans who are protesting the war. How does that make you feel, Seth? I'm pretty sure you live in California.

You're golden boy Arnold is stonewalling on this. Get active and learn what's really going on in our country.

Comment #41: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 1:50am ET...

>>>>>Do Republicans really want to take away rights that are derivitive and not specifically mentioned in Life, Liberty,Property, Pursuit of Happiness?

What do you mean specifically?<<<<<

Well specifically, I mean abortion, which i heard was derived from the right of privacy. I don't even know how true what i heard was.

In general I mean. Do honest, hardworking Republicans actually want to ammend the federal Constitution to further "resrtict rights", and reverse the principle of contitutional ammendaments which I think is to "expand rights"

On the issue of Abortion would it be American to say that I do not believe in abortion, but I don't believe abortion should be considered murder, at least not until our civilization has evolved beyond the point of wars, and other approved froms of murder?

Seth Cowen

Comment #42: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:51am ET...

I don't blame you for your avoidance of Vietnam books, GCM, what can you read in them that you don't already know?

I was too young for Vietnam, but one of my neighbors was killed there and another wounded. The human cost of that war came home to my neighborhood in 1969 and made a big impression on me.

So I've read a lot of Vietnam books, but can only handle about one a year.

Dummie's approach to debate is limited to, "You are a barking moonbat," etc. Reaching out works sometimes, I had a long debate with Stoufi the 3-4 nights ago, but I must have made him work too hard to defend his opinions, because he hasn't been back here since.

Comment #43: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 1:57am ET...

Well specifically, I mean abortion

Of course I can't speak for all Republicans, but personally I don't think overturning Roe V Wade is the end of abortion. It puts it back to the state legislatures.

Comment #44: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:59am ET...

Hi Happy,

You must feel lonely, there aren't very many happy people around these days. I agree with your comments, you should post here more often if you can. Thanks.

Comment #45: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 2:01am ET...

Correction

#Well specifically, I mean abortion, which i heard was derived from the right of privacy. I don't even know how true what i heard was.#

Actualy I heard that the right of Privacy is derivitve, and that abortion is based on privacy.

Do most Republicans actaully support takeing away our right to privacy?

Seth Cowen

Comment #46: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:06am ET...

#41: Seth, yes, abortion, in the famous case and thorn in the Christian Rights tail was basically based (redundantly redundant?) on the right of privacy.

Those that want to control what American women do with their bodies and especially the Christian right whose beliefs explicitly forbid abortion, want to impose those beliefs on the rest of us Americans.

I cannot unequivically say that honest, hardworking Republicans actually want to amend the US Constitution to further restrict rights and reverse the principle of constitutional amendments (by this I mean the Bill of Rights) however, you can be sure that the NeoCons who have effectively taken control of our government do. That is the only way they will be able to stay in power.

The pro-lifers are trying to say that some oganic goo, you know the zygote, is a human being. They are constantly pushing the law to read that human life begins at conception. If the fetus cannot survive outside the womb, how can a first trimester abortion be murder?

Serious question for you Seth: How can the Pro-lifers be pro war or pro Capital punishment. Isn't that hypocritcal?

Comment #47: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 2:08am ET...

Do most Republicans actaully support takeing away our right to privacy?

We are protected against illegal search and seizure. There are privacy matters that are already addressed. Is a woman's body up for discussion in that matter? I don't think it should be.

Again, I can only speak for myself. Right to privacy was derived, and morphed into abortion? Then no, I don't support that. I don't feel that abortion should have ever been made a federal issue. Like medicinal marijuana, it should be a state issue.

Comment #48: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 2:14am ET...

>>Serious questions : 1.How can the Pro-lifers be pro war or pro Capital punishment?. 2.Isn't that hypocritcal?<<

1. The simple conclusion is that a contrarian as mentioned above does not care about life,justice, nor National Sovereinty, they care about power,power,power.

2. Yes. Contrarian at the least.

Seth Cowen

Comment #49: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:16am ET...

Rusty, have you ever been to the Vietnam Memorial in DC? I've been there once. I walked up to it and immediately started crying. A couple of years ago a really good friend of mine, a former Army Ranger and decorated Vietnam Vet, 2 Bronze Stars, 4 Purple Hearts died of a heart attack. Losing him broke my heart too.

Let me see, 2 Bronze Stars and 4 Purple Hearts. I be willing to bet my left testicle that those pissant swiftboat veterans for the truth would smear him now as I know he would be against what is going on now like we are.

Comment #50: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 2:19am ET...

Mr.Conyers,
It was my hope that a moderate would be nominated to the court . I think anyone too far to the right or the left is bad for the country. The majority of us are only slightly right or left of center. I am pro life myself but I believe life and death medical decisions are best made by families and their doctors, not politicians. Most of us have caring, intelligent doctors and we place our trust in them. I really don't want someone like Bill Frist (who thinks you can catch AIDS from tears) defining what is "good medicine" for my family doctor. I also don't believe the only people who have abortions in this country are "moonbat liberals". I think many a right wing christian has resorted to abortion . The problem of unwanted pregnancy can not be solved by law, no matter who is on the court. It can only be changed by how we love and care for one another. How we support and help each other. How unconditional our love for our children really is. How we support the needy and downtrodden. What sacrifices are we willing to make for each child. That is the only way to truly support "right to life". as a Christian, I am concerned about separation of church and state because I don't want the government sticking their nose in my church. The only way to protect my religious and moral freedom is to keep people like Tom Delay out of it.
Don't be distracted from the Rove issue. Treason is a very serious issue. This is the issue you should focus on.

Comment #51: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 2:21am ET...

>>We are protected against illegal search and seizure. There are privacy matters that are already addressed.<<

Is what I have heard true about Republicans or at least Republican leadership wanting to take away our right of privacy, and our right to not have our person or property illegaly searched and seized?

Is privacy a derived right? and not a God given right?

Should the law be changed to give government enough authority so that no search or seizure can ever qualify as illegal?

Seth Cowen

Comment #52: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 2:28am ET...

huh Seth? I was using search and seizure as an example of a Constitutional right of privacy. Abortion shouldn't be one of those rights in my opinion. I don't think God gave us a right to privacy, as he knows our heart and mind. Government is not God and we elect leaders who represent us and make laws according to our wishes (ideally).

President Bush is being true to those who elected him by this nomination.

Jo, if Roe v Wade got overturned abortion would still be legal in many states. You should really research it a bit.

Comment #53: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:29am ET...

#47: Gina, please tell me what has happened to the all time champions of States rights a.k.a GOP. Where have they gone? You saw the Supreme Court come down with that stupifying Eminent Domain decision a couple of weeks ago. That is in itself, UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Who the is going to correct that legal miscarriage?

#48 Seth, they did a poll yesterday on whether or not the people polled believed the White House was helping with the Rovegate investigation...75% said NO. So you see it is basically the NeoCons, a.k.a. fascists and their wingnut supporters who are in goose step with them that don't care about leaving our Constitutional rights untouched.

The Patriot Act is an outright attack on the Bill of Rights. Richard Nixon tried this and got it shoved up his tail.

Comment #54: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 2:32am ET...

GCM,

I lived in Alexandria in 1989-90 and visited The Wall several times. It is a sacred place. Like everyone, I look at all of the names and feel overwhelmed.

There is such a contrast between the violence and trauma those soldiers experienced and the peaceful serenity of the location.
The personal items some people leave there in tribute are heartbreaking.

The Wall and the Lincoln Memorial were my favorite places. I don't know why exactly, they both bring to mind the worst years in American history, when we were bitterly divided, and both sides were convinced they were right.

Just like now.

In a deeper sense, the Wall and the Lincoln Memorial symbolize national healing to me. They endure as symbols that we can overcome even the worst of times.

Comment #55: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 2:33am ET...

DUmmie,

I find you amusing because you continually rant about the same things instead of provide the world with some insight.

All,

Remember the reason those like NO DUmmie are here. It is to mainly distract. However one can learn alot from their dialogue especially to know what the current GOP talking points of the day are...

Which brings me to this important piece of news.

Britain generals in Iraq charged with War Crimes: To be tried in the U.K. and ICC rather than the Hague.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050719/wl_mideast_afp/iraqbritainjustice

"In his statement, Lord Goldsmith said cases against all seven were reviewed by prosecutors at the Army Prosecuting Authority, which was satisfied that there is "a realistic prospect of convicting all defendants and that the prosecutions are in the public interest."

In the second case, the army prosecutor ordered four servicemen to stand trial for the manslaughter of Ahmed Kareem, an Iraqi civilian.

That allegation relates to an incident in Basra on May 8, 2003.

It is alleged that the four servicemen detained four suspected looters, of whom Kareem was one.

The servicemen allegedly punched and kicked the looters before forcing them into the Shat Al-Basra canal. Kareem, who could not swim, drowned.

Lord Goldsmith said the army prosecutor is satisfied that there is a realistic prospect of conviction and that the prosecutions are in the public interest.

Three of those charged with the unlawful killing of Kareem are Sergeant Carle Selman, 38, of the Scots Guards, Guardsman Martin McGing, 21, of the Irish Guards, and Guardsman Joseph McCleary, 23, also with the Irish Guards.

Another 21-year-old lance corporal with the Irish Guards has yet to be informed of the charge against him and has not yet been named."

Lord Goldsmith has charged each with War Crimes, and others who authorized these atrocities will also be tried including British Government officials.

The problem for Tony Blair is this is not going away. If he does not want to be caught for War Crimes, he needs to denounce his affiliation with this illegal invasion and step aside from parliament.

Lord Goldsmith is demanding they stop stonewalling. So is Labour Party Organizer George Galloway, who knew this invasion was illegal since day one.

Can we help the British people get justice, as well as Americans?

Also there is more going on in Ohio than we were led to believe....

Doug E.

Comment #56: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 2:34am ET...

gcm, the liberal wing of the Supreme Court held up the Eminent Domain decision. Dissenters were Reihnquist, Scalia and Thomas. The majority GOP congress is working to correst that legal miscarriage. =D

Comment #57: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 2:35am ET...

>>Government is not God<<

Was the United States Onf America founded on the principles of the Declaration of Independence?

Doesn't the Declaration of Independence mention God?

I agree that would should have separation of Church and State, and freedom from religion.

America is "One Nation under God".

America is not and should never be "One nation under "blank" Religion".

Seth Cowen

Comment #58: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 2:42am ET...

Oh and Gina: Nearly all the members of of the supreme court are republican, meaning at least 5 so it was not any "liberals" SCOTUS decision.

I guess that talking point fell through the floor too fast.

Doug E.

Comment #59: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 2:44am ET...

GCM,

What was your friend's name? The only thing I can do right now to honor him is ask his name.

The neighbor of mine who was killed was Eddie Evenson. On my first visit, it took awhile to find his name, there were so many people at that directory book or whatever it's called that I just decided to look for his name on the center sections of The Wall, where I figured the 1969 casualties would be.

Well, I found his name. One name, of one lost American serviceman, surrounded by the names of 50,000 other lost American servicemen and women, etched forever into our national memory.

God bless them all.

Comment #60: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:45am ET...

Re the current nominee for the vacant Supreme Court position: One thing, he has an extremely sharp mind and no doubt he is a hard worker. Anyone who was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review is no slacker.

However, he clerked for Chief Justice Renquist and that in itself given the decisions that have come out of the Renquist court scares the hell out of me.

Don't know whether you are aware of this or not but a great majority of the decisions that come down from the SC are researched and written by the clerks.

Gina your statement in #52 that "if Roe v. Wade got overturned abortion would still be legal in many states." Think again, medicinal marijuana(MM) in California, assited death in Oregon. That gem of an Attorney General, Arturo Gonzales has gone after both laws in those states. The MM law in California has been basically rendered useless thanks to the AG who thinks the Geneva Conventions are "quaint". Damn I would love to see him and the rest of the NeoCons and Republican reps and senators that support them in a combat zone.

Comment #61: bvac said on 7/20/05 @ 2:47am ET...

Another derailed comment thread. Another call for participation in power ruined. Good job guys, trolls and otherwise.

Congressman, I know too little about the candidate to condone or condemn him just yet. Yes he's very conservative and I read something about him signing a letter saying Roe v. Wade should be overturned, but I haven't seen much of a record. The way he handles questioning will be very revealing.

Comment #62: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:52am ET...

Rusty, his name was Don.

#56 Gina, you are absolutely right. Sandra Day O'Conner put the final nail into that one. I don't even trust the "liberal wing". So the righties got one right in how many. Have you ever read any SC decisions? Do you remember Associate Justice William O. Douglas? If not suggest you read some books about him. He was basically the last great protector of our rights outside of Thurgood Marshall. And you want to give the rightwing another surefire righty. Please God, don't let Renquist either die or resign. I can't believe I'm saying that.

Comment #63: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 2:53am ET...

Do most Republicans actually think that the Geneva conventions are quaint? Do most Republicans approve of Torture?

I am part American of Mexican heritage and I think Alberto Gonzalez is one of the biggest terrorists there are. Did any Democrats in Congress approve him?

A follow up to<
We are a Representative Republic<<<

If we are a Representative Republic what is Democracy and why is our military spreading it around the World?

Seth Cowen

Comment #64: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 2:54am ET...

gcm, the reason the medicinal marijuana laws in the states got messed up is because the Supreme Court made them federal laws. That's what happened to abortion. Both those laws belong at the state level. I wish I could concede your blame to Alberto but the reason the feds got into the act is because the Supremes told him he could.

Comment #65: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 2:57am ET...

Rusty I think the Chief Justice is too stubborn to die or retire so you're ok.

Comment #66: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 2:59am ET...

bvac,

Many of us in this thread have been speaking out for democracy and justice on this blog for weeks.

I haven't seen your name before, bvac. Your blanket condemnation of all of us "guys" and "otherwise" is not appreciated.

Nothing is ruined in this thread if you skim over the posts that don't interest you. If you feel this thread has derailed, then post some useful information instead of telling us you know too little about Bush's nominee and haven't seen much of a record.

If that's your idea of "participation in power" then I suggest you try to do better next time.

Comment #67: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 3:03am ET...

>>>>>the reason the medicinal marijuana laws in the states got messed up is because the Supreme Court made them federal laws. That's what happened to abortion. Both those laws belong at the state level. I wish I could concede your blame to Alberto but the reason the feds got into the act is because the Supremes told him he could.<<<<

The real unmentioned reason is John Ashcroft, he overstepped the boundary of Federal Jurisdiction, and tried to get the courts to make his opinion precedent. John Ashcroft gloriously resigned, and let Alberto Gonzalez take over. ALberto Gonzalez told the Supreme Court how he thinks our laws should be interpreted and they agreed with him, at least a majority of them did.

I find it hard to believe that John Ashcroft, and Alberto Gonzalez want to bust pot smokers, and cancer patients who use it medicinaly, while The United States of America is trying to fight the War on Terror.

Someone growing pot plants in their own home is not international terrorism.

Seth Cowen

Comment #68: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:05am ET...

Well Seth, I think we agree in principle that some laws do belong at the state level. We have a breakthrough. Stop the presses!

Comment #69: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 3:06am ET...

Gina,

I don't know what your #65 is referring to. Well, at least you didn't call me a hypocrite again.

Thanks Doug #55. Why is it that the little guys get charged for war crimes and torture, etc, but the guys in the thousand dollar suits who send them to war never do?

"Just another poor boy, off to fight a rich man's war." Steve Earle.

Comment #70: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:09am ET...

Sorry, that should have been in response to #62.

Comment #71: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 3:10am ET...

What a relief.

Comment #72: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 3:10am ET...

Interesting point Rusty, this whole scenario deserves watch.

We are in the middle of an illegal war fallout, and who gets nominated to the Supreme Court is Judge Roberts.

Roberts appears to be fine, a conservative moderate with little trouble following the law.

However there is one thing that troubles me deeply about Roberts: Roberts has indicated in a written memo that he wants to overturn Roe Vs. Wade.

For the many millions of women all over america, if the issue of abortion is to be outlawed this is a serious offense.

If Roberts is intent on overturning Roe VS Wade and will not simply just be a judge, then all the democrats must fillibuster him.

Plus if this leads to an explosion the GOP will use the nuclear option, that's a guarantee and after that the GOP's credibility is permanently shot.

I think that Roberts should be stopped at all costs if he intends to overturn Roe VS Wade. This is one of the most divisive courts in our time, and there is absolutely no way it should be allowed to go any further.

Doug E.

Comment #73: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 3:13am ET...

Gina you are correct, abortion would be legal in some states even if roe v wade is overturned.My state would most likely be one of them.I live in a state with a proud heritage of doing things in a fair fashion. We let sick people have marijuana if their doctor says it will help them. We let terminally ill people make dignified end of life decisions with their doctors and families.Most likely we would still allow abortion. The problem that I see is how hard we have to fight to keep these simple values we share intact. Ashcroft was after us for years on our death with dignity policy. We fight for our rights under this administration on an almost daily basis. By now you can guess which state I live in. Anyway the point is I think individuals should be able to make medical decisions with their doctors, and I am a big supporter of states rights.
Gcm and Rusty- I have always wanted to see the wall. I lost so many of my friends in the war. My brother died 3 months after returning from Nam. He's not on the wall but he should be.The war killed him. I am crying now and can't continue, Peace be with you. Goodnight.

Comment #74: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:14am ET...

#61: bvac, excuse me? Another derailed comment thread? Some of the people in this thread are asking questions. Given the serverity of the problem (NeoCon takeover of the US Government and an unlawful war, civil rights in grave danger of being usurped), it is incumbent upon us and it in fact behooves us to answer their questions as best we can.

You want to talk about Judge Roberts? Please give me some case cites from the DC court of appeals so I can read them and see where his mind is at. Otherwise, please read my #60. Just about the time I wrote #60, I realized that I was in fact off subject but hey like I said there are much more important things at this moment and that number one thing is to not let this be a distraction to the DSM thing and Rovegate which will tie into the DSM.

The SCOTUS nomination is a smoke screen and we have to not get side tracked by it. I believe that once the ball gets rolling on the DSM and how the Bush and the NeoCons got us into Iraq the people see what has happened, it is only a matter of time when then are swept out of DC and his nomination will fall by the wayside. Don't get me wrong here, I do not want anymore fascists a.k.a. 'strict constructionist' on the court. Societies evolve and that is how the court needs to look at everything that comes before it.

Did you follow Watergate? I watched the hearings everyday. Woodward and Bernstein wrote on it damn near every day. The people became knowledgeable about what Nixon and his criminal cabal where attempting to do to the Constitution (the same thing Bush and the NeoCons are doing) and he and his associates were stopped and a lot of them went to jail.

Comment #75: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 3:17am ET...

Thanks, GCM,

I imagine Don's friends and family just called him Don, so that's good enough for me. I didn't mean to invade anyone's privacy by asking his name.

Doug or anyone,

I read somewhere that there are still 5 supporters of Roe v Wade of the eight active justices. Is that true?

Comment #76: Lemon said on 7/20/05 @ 3:21am ET...

"This premise was ignored by your science, and the principles and devices created by Tesla confiscated by the "powers that be."

Sheldan Niddle Update 07.19.05

Greetings, dear Hearts! We return once again to tell you more about what is happening on your world and in your reality. The slow but deliberate march of our Earth allies is still moving forward. As we speak, the last steps of this journey are falling into place. Many truly wondrous events are about to befall all of you. Rejoice in the fact that the dark has been quite unable to prevent this relentless surge toward victory. Let us be clear here: the dark and its stooges in the last cabal tried on numerous occasions to forestall what is now to happen. And we therefore extend our thanks and our admiration to the motley group who so bravely persisted in this endeavor and who have, with such courage, achieved a great triumph over the dark. This work is just the start of an adventure to restore your beautiful world and transform the quite unnecessary strife, hatred, and poverty that are currently so prevalent in your global society. The new transitional governments that are to pop up all over your world will spearhead these efforts. Very soon thereafter, the many resources that we bring you will support and extend their programs.
As we mentioned before, we intend to bring you alternate forms of energy. Your present systems rely too much on resources that either harm Mother Earth or greatly pollute your environment. The length of time that you have been constrained to use these primitive energy resources has adversely affected your health and greatly compounded the harm done to Mother Earth. For far too long your society has regarded your world as a brutal adversary that must be tamed, and this belief has undermined the very nature of your technology. Your Mother wants to nurture you and establish a natural, loving symbiosis. The so-called primitive or aboriginal people of your world have given you many wise tidbits of intimate knowledge about this natural relationship. What they did not address was how to realign your technology. One aspect of our mission with you is to give you the parts that are missing and demonstrate, via direct application, how this greatly advanced technology can create and sustain a loving symbiosis with Mother Earth.

Your whole society needs to learn how this natural, intimate association between you and Mother Earth functions. You reside in a society filled with inventions based upon concepts that are deeply harmful to life. Like you, Mother Earth possesses infinite Life force. This energy can become the weft and warp of your technology. Over a century ago, a great scientist and inventor named Nicola Tesla discovered this natural principle. He comprehended that electricity and magnetism are complementary parts of a greater whole and that the electricity utilized by humanity was a harsh, primitive version of a much more elegant unity. This premise was ignored by your science, and the principles and devices created by Tesla confiscated by the "powers that be". This public dismissal of his work did not prevent them from using Tesla's discoveries to produce many amazing devices for use in their secret arsenals. The time has come to reveal this technology to the public and to fully explain the implications of these insights given to Tesla by the Creator.

If you look at your present electromagnetic spectrum, you will notice that it addresses only those phenomena pertaining to your 3D reality. In truth, this spectrum is multi-dimensional in nature and extends into the vastness that is physicality. Many inventors of "free" or "zero point" energy devices have observed that this interdimensional electromagnetism only barely resembles that which is known to your scientists. It is this energy that eventually evolves into the sacred Life/Light energy of Heaven used by us. We employ this energy to power our ships, enliven our technology, and care for the myriad solar systems we so lovingly inhabit. You reside in a living, conscious, infinite Universe in which each part is interlinked via this Life force energy. It possesses divine "memory", which is a code imbued into every living thing by the Creator. When required, this code is activated, and divine "magic" instantly materializes.

This revolutionary approach to technology is one we can easily teach you. It can birth a much needed paradigm shift that in turn can allow you to integrate the new philosophies we bring. Technology, far from inducing a society's downfall, provides a tool designed to advance a society in consciousness, and to sustain and support the natural symbiosis between its home world and the surrounding solar system. For millennia, you advanced via progressively more liberating technologies, absorbing the higher consciousness they reflected. Your former masters planned this process with great caution. They quite rightly feared that the changes provoked by new technology would lead you away from their influence over your life. The electronic world you presently inhabit was carefully sculptured to divert you while still maintaining control over you. And yet the powerful nature of even this primitive form of electronics has doomed their dominion over you!

The nature of life is electric, magnetic, and above all is a form of Light. Divine Light contains every infinite vibration, including the entire range of sound both within and outside of human hearing. These create patterns that imitate life in all its endless forms. The Universe is awesomely alive: huge amounts of this divine energy are continuously bombarding every reality. Yet, to use it properly, one needs to know how this energy flows within and between realities, and this is what was taught to Tesla. He understood that energy has a life rhythm that has sympathetic vibrations running parallel and perpendicular to it. These help one to maintain these "pure" energy rhythms, or conversely, as in the case of your world, to disrupt them to prevent them being employed in technology that has an aggressive agenda.

Our technology combines many of the same principles that are used in numerous craft secretly employed by your major governments. The difference is that we have been at this game much longer than they know. The technology we intend to give you is over 25 million years old. We are doing this only because you are on the verge of leaping back into your natural state of fully conscious Beings of Light. By and large, primitive societies such as yours are unable to correctly apply this technology and soon consume themselves. In your case, you are now rapidly evolving into Beings whose knowledge and wisdom comprehends the concepts behind this technology. You will therefore without doubt use it in a manner that enriches your society and sustains the natural symbiosis between yourselves and physicality. This is the prime reason why we have come and why a first contact is now so essential.

First contact, as you can see, has so very many intertwining reasons for happening. We know fully how vital your transformation is. In addition, we recognize how the divine workings of Heaven have moved you to a place where your inner changes have actually been bolstered by the new electronic devices so cautiously extended by your secret masters. The genius of what is now occurring is that Heaven meticulously orchestrated this electronic "Trojan Horse" scenario to coincide with the decrees of the divine plan. We have added our assistance to help our Earth allies to finish off this most effective and magnificent design. You now stand prepared to receive what Heaven and the Divine are currently manifesting. This glorious plan is now ready to have us formally introduce ourselves to you. We intend to help all to have a most joyous and ecstatic time doing so!

Today, we discussed what is happening on your world and delved briefly into the operation of our conscious, living Universe. The infinite energy we described is to be the source of your new technology. With it, you can begin to establish the symbiosis that advanced societies naturally set up between themselves and the worlds they graciously inhabit. Remember, a great Joy is about to envelop you! We now take our leave. Blessings, dear Ones! Know in your Heart of Hearts that the perpetual Supply and infinite Abundance of Heaven is indeed Yours! Selamat Gajun! Selamat Kasijaram! (Sirian for Be One! and Be Blessed in Love and Joy!)

Comment #77: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:24am ET...

repost: case law/Roberts

Comment #83: Sandra said on 7/19/05 @ 11:30pm ET...

People For The American Way

“It is extremely disappointing that the President did not choose a consensus nominee in the mold of Sandra Day O’Connor,” said Neas. “John Roberts’ record raises serious concerns and questions about where he stands on crucial legal and constitutional issues – it will be critical for Senators and the American people to get answers to those questions. Replacing O’Connor with someone who is not committed to upholding Americans’ rights, liberties, and legal protections would be a constitutional catastrophe.”

http://media.pfaw.org/roberts.pdf

==================================

John Roberts has little experience as a judge—he was only appointed in 2003. But he's got a lot of experience as a corporate lobbyist and lawyer, consistently favoring wealthy corporations over regular Americans.

Here's a list of some of the things that make Roberts the wrong pick for the Supreme Court:

Wrong on environmental protection: Roberts appears to want to limit the scope of the Endangered Species Act, and in papers he wrote while in law school he supported far-right legal theories about "takings" which would make it almost impossible for the government to enforce most environmental legislation.

Wrong on civil rights: Roberts worked to keep Congress from defending parts of the Voting Rights Act.

Wrong on human rights: As a appeals court judge, Roberts ruled that the Geneva Convention doesn't apply to some prisoners of war.

Wrong on our right to religious freedom: Roberts argued that schools should be able to impose religious speech on attendees.

Wrong on women's rights: Roberts wrote that "Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided and should be overruled." He also weighed in on behalf of Operation Rescue, a violent anti-abortion group, in a federal case.

President Bush could have chosen many fair-minded and independent jurists to replace Sandra Day O'Connor. Instead, he chose a corporate partisan loved by Bush's right-wing base but out of step with the rest of the country.

Tell your senators they need to stop John Roberts now, at:

http://political.moveon.org/roberts/?id=5817-5739639-kffnzUa0YI0LdphGNsddUg&t=4

Comment #78: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:28am ET...

One thing to keep in mind is that a lawyer works for his client and does what's in their best interest. That doesn't necessarily mean they personally believe in every word they write or say.

Comment #79: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 3:30am ET...

Hi Jo,

Your friends and your brother are in a better place, where there are no tears. I'm sorry their loss is still so painful for you. You are honoring their memory by being politically and socially active, and standing up for what you believe in.

They would be proud of you.

Comment #80: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:31am ET...

Well, Gina I hope you're right because this judge is certainly hostile to women and women's rights among other's rights. He even ruled against our Gulf War POW's.

Comment #81: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:32am ET...

Moving abortion back to the states isn't "hostile to women's rights" in my view.

Comment #82: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 3:33am ET...

Do not bother getting distracted from the DSM-Rove story, but the truth is the confirmation of Roberts carries one large problem with it.

Roe V Wade may be immediately overturned because he has indicated that's what he wants.

This is a very serious situation because if abortion is illegal, then even in the states where it is legal freepers could tout the decision all the way to the supreme court to get it banned.

And that is where the real problem lies, INTERFERING with the woman's right to choose....The world hath no more fury than a woman scorned.

There would be absolute ANARCHY if the absolutely conscience bankrupt freepers were allowed to decide the laws of the states, it would never get back from hell after that.

We've seen what neoconservatives do when they have no one to stop their foolish decisions, they drag all the conservatives and everyone else with them over a cliff. When there is no unified Howard Dean opposition, the conservatives go out of control and leave behind all logic.

Almost everything in our country is at stake if this insanity ensues. So remember Iraq is illegal, but do NOT LET Roberts in or be justified to overturn Roe V Wade.

This could be the ultimate wedge issue which becomes a severe defeat for the repubs in 2006, if they stand behind a man overturning Roe V Wade.

It also is not healthy to even CONSIDER confirming anyone who would overturn these rules.

Doug E.

Comment #83: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:35am ET...

You missed the point... do you think that these people give a damned about state's rights? Give me a break.

Comment #84: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 3:36am ET...

Also if the states decided anything to do with abortion or women's rights, any mindless nobody could appeal the case to the supreme courts......THUS making sure it was permanently banned.

And that is where anarchy will begin, allowing the SCOTUS to interefere with state rights.

Doug E.

Comment #85: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:37am ET...

All, and especially the diehard supporters of that shirker of Air National Guard duty and the 5 time recipiant of deferments ("I had other priorities") during the Vietnam fiasco. Please go to Current Events for those with attention deficit disorder

Notwithstanding the majority of print and electronic media are not doing a good job reporting what is going on, you will find that the editorial cartoonists are right on the money and not letting anything get by. If I could post some them here I would. You could take Christian Science Monitor's Clay Bennett's cartoons over the last 5 years and put them in a book and call it Current Events for dummies.

Comment #86: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:38am ET...

No Sandra, actually Moveon misses the point. They continue to waste money, which is fine. :)

Comment #87: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:40am ET...

Look how far they took the 'Gay Marriage' issue from changing the Constitution to forcing it on every state ballot?

How about Voting Rights -- will that now be a 'state-to-state' issue?

,,,worked to keep Congress from defending parts of the Voting Rights Act.

Before you defend a record, please read the cases that I have provided via pdf.

Seems to me, and I hope it to be so, the Senate really needs to do some thorough questioning here during the confirmation process.

Comment #88: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:42am ET...

Dear President Bush,

Karl Rove, your most senior advisor, is embroiled in another controversy – this time for leaking the identity of a covert CIA agent. Despite carefully worded denials, it is now apparent that Karl Rove discussed the identity of an undercover CIA agent with a reporter. His clear aim was to discredit that agent’s husband who had dared to challenge the administration in the buildup to the war.
You have a choice to make: Spend the months ahead focused on protecting Karl Rove’s job security or spend them focused on protecting America’s national security. You cannot remain silent.

All I’m asking is that you remain true to your word. When the scandal first broke, your spokesman, Scott McClellan, said “If anyone in this Administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this Administration.” (9/29/03, White House press briefing). What you do now, in light of Karl Rove’s involvement will speak volumes.

Decency—and the interests of the American people--demand an end to Karl Rove’s days in the White House. You have the choice to either make good on your promise to hold accountable those who shared the identity of a secret soldier in the war on terror – or prove that promise hollow. I call on you to keep your promise to the American people and fire Karl Rove.

http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/rove.php

======================

Also, there's a petition on Air America Radio and The People's Email Network if you haven't seen previous posts.

Comment #89: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:43am ET...

Forcing it on state ballots? hmm how did that turn out for you? You can keep up with all your righteous indignation all you want but all those states passed that, didn't they? Conservative Supreme Court Justices by definition are all about State's rights. So yes, I'll give you a break. What parts of the Voting Rights Act did he keep them from defending?

Comment #90: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 3:44am ET...

#87 Sandra. Please click my name, login and click !Support, now if you have a few minutes. Thanks.

Comment #91: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:45am ET...

Gina, there's nobody in Washington wasting taxpayer dollars?

Thanks for your contribution to corporate wealth!

Comment #92: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:47am ET...

#77 Sandra. Thanks for the info on Roberts. I had my doubts about him becuase he was Renquist's clerk but you have removed all doubt. He is unfit for the Supreme Court.

Still, even if the Senate gets into a fillibuster/nuclear option bruhaha, we must not lose site of what Bush and the NeoCons have done and keep that on the fire so everyone can see it. The SCOTUS nomination is a smoke screen. Obviously payback for the Religious Right getting him elected in 2004. I guess God went into Ohio and disenfranchised all those registered voters.

Comment #93: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:49am ET...

Another example of 'Democracy for Women',,,

Iraqi Constitution Draft Includes Curbs to Women's Rights

By EDWARD WONG
Published: July 20, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 - A working draft of Iraq's new constitution would cede a strong role to Islamic law and could sharply curb women's rights, particularly in personal matters like divorce and family inheritance.

Women's groups demonstrated Tuesday in Baghdad against a constitutional draft intended to strengthen the role of religious law in Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/international/middleeast/20women.html

=======================

Women better wake up!

Comment #94: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:49am ET...

Ah I see, just like the Rove "scandal" you want people to take action before knowing all the facts. Don't allow this guy on the Supreme Court! Moveon says he's scary! Who needs an investigation we already know Karl Rove is evil!

Good grief.

Comment #95: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 3:50am ET...

The danger about Roberts is overturning Roe V Wade just keep that in the focus, and ignore all the other distractions.

Mail your senate to fully investigate the man to find if he intends to overturn that decision.

http://www.usalone.com/index.htm

Then back to DowningStreetGate.

Remember interfering with a female's right to choose through the law, is the worst decision that can ever be made. There is nothing STATES rights about that because the SCOTUS will then make the final call.

That would essentially means nutcases like Jerry Falwell would proceed to outlaw abortion, in EVERY single state they can. Their crusade is to OUTLAW abortion and have MORE illegal wars.

Keep attention on the ball, and encourage the Senate to investigate Roberts on Roe V Wade and fillibuster if required.

The confirmation of a judge will take a long time, the scandal blowing up everywhere now won't even take half that.

Doug E.

Comment #96: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:51am ET...

No Gina... I actually have been reading case law on Mr. Roberts for the past four hours.

Did you not read the 10 page pdf?

Do you're own research, it is not my job to educate you or search for articles for you.

Just because a Move On email was posted is not the only information available out there about this man.

Get a clue. You have a brain use it.

Comment #97: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 3:53am ET...

Yes, I've been reading about him since it was announced that President Bush intended to nominate him. I'm glad he is being true to those who elected him by appointing this man.

Comment #98: Erik said on 7/20/05 @ 3:54am ET...

I've been working my but off lately to get this rally going over here in Philly, but it seams to be paying off. The guy's @ ADS.org referred Chuck Pennacchio (he's one of the Dem's running for Rick Santorums seat) to me and we had a very fruitful meeting this afternoon.

People from Billionaires for Bush, and Vietnam Vets for Peace are among those I know are coming. I'm waiting on word from PDA and MoveOn.org, but that’s just because my phone died today.

I went to Congressman Fattah's office to personally invite him to speak, but he's on vacation. I should be hearing from him by Friday. If anyone can send him an e-mail, tell him that you would love to hear him speak Saturday. It would be a big help.

I feel bad though. I have been so busy running around, sticking up fliers, posting on other websites, and sending out press releases, that I've been laxing on the website.

You guy's are some of the best and brightest in the Democratic Party (with a one or two noted exceptions that got thru the new password system). If you have any good stories, add them on to our site. You guy's are a biggest reason Mary and I started SoapBox4Truth in the first place. I consider you all family, and I cherish your opinions.

Well, I have to crash. It's crunch time, and I still haven't finished my speech for Saturday.
If I get good coverage, check it out. I'll be sending a shout out to yall.

Erik
SoapBox4Truth.org

Comment #99: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 3:58am ET...

Sandra,

Could you mix me a drink and send it to me right now through Lemon's friends at the Galactic Federation?
I could use one. Dry. Shaken, not stirred. Thanks.

Comment #100: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 3:59am ET...

Sure Rusty!

Comment #101: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 4:01am ET...

Patriot... patience; misplaced passcode.

Comment #102: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:05am ET...

Admin: Why does the link I put in my #85 end up this way? http://www.conyersblog.us/cgi-bin/www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/

Here it is without being an active link. Current Events for those with attention deficit disorder: http://www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/

Comment #103: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 4:08am ET...

Gina,

The special prosecutor is going to bury that GOP Sewage Treatment Plant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue with indictments.

They don't call Fitzgerald the Terminator for nothing. He is onto the Rove/Libby/Novak at al conspiracy to retaliate against Wilson.

Fitzgerald would not threaten two journalists with prison and jail one of them already if he wasn't closing in on serious criminal conduct in the Bush White House.

But just keep peddling your leaking GOP canoe down the river of DeNile. You've got a lot of GOP company with you paddling down that river and you are all going to drown together.

Comment #104: Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 4:10am ET...

Wow Rusty I didn't know you can see into the future. I'll be sure to play the office pool now.

It's late.. g'night.

Comment #105: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 4:11am ET...

Thanks Sandra,

Wow, that Galactic Federation is fast. Shaken, not stirred, just how I like it. Can I keep the glass?

Comment #106: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:11am ET...

Keep your eye on the ball....

Downing Street Minutes

"BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 19 - The Iraqi tribunal preparing the trial of Saddam Hussein has been thrown into turmoil by the dismissal of nine senior staff members and a threat to dismiss 19 others, including the chief investigative judge. The upheaval burst into public view on Tuesday when an aide to Ahmed Chalabi , the former Pentagon favorite who is a deputy prime minister in the transitional government, confirmed that Mr. Chalabi had begun to press for the removal of former members of Mr. Husseim's ruling Baath Party from the tribunal's staff of judges, prosecutors and administrators. Mr. Chalabi contends that the 28 men he has cited for removal are ineligible under Iraqi law to work at the tribunal because of their party affiliation.

It was not immediately clear whether his efforts would disrupt plans for the trial, which is to start in September. An aide to Mr. Chalabi, Ali Feisal, said Tuesday that Mr. Chalabi had delayed his push to dismiss the chief judge, Raid Juhi, and others of the tribunal's 65 members so as not to "disrupt" the tribunal's work or plans for the Hussein trial, but that the removal of the former Baathists would continue as replacements were appointed.

Mr. Chalabi's actions have caused alarm among senior American officials here, including those at the Regime Crimes Liaison Office, which plays a crucial behind-the-scenes role in guiding the tribunal's work. American officials have carried their concerns directly to Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, who has intervened in an attempt, so far unavailing, to curb Mr. Chalabi's assault on the tribunal, Iraqi officials say.

One Iraqi official, insisting that he not be identified because of the risk to his own position at the tribunal, said an American official had warned the Jaafari government that the United States, which holds Mr. Hussein and more than 80 of his top associates in military prisons, that if the wrangling continued, it would "take them to The Hague," a reference to an international tribunal there.

American Embassy officials would not comment on this or other aspects of the dispute. But United States Justice Department lawyers who have led the work of the Regime Crimes Office, which has spent more than $35 million helping tribunal investigations and building a special courthouse, have made no secret in recent months of their exasperation with Iraqi politicians' attempts to interfere with the tribunal's work...."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/international/middleeast/20tribunal.html?

What's this propaganda we have here? Ahmad Chalabi again, the dictator who has taken over Iraq. He's fired anyone on the staff who doesn't agree with him.

Could this be part of the connection? The man has a deadset quarrel with Saddom, just like Bush so he wanted see promptly to his humiliation....

However it looks as though lawyers there have revealed some unsettling facts about Iran, Saudi Arabia bringing chemical weapons to Iraq.....And it looks like it implicates far more than Chalabi.

The LAST thing Chalabi wants is for Saddom to talk in court and have a fair trial.....

Can you see the war crimes all over this stint? It's obvious we should be putting them all before the World Court.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050719/wl_mideast_afp/iraqbritainjustice

After all WAR CRIMES according to the international arms treaty and resolutions are illegal.....

Doug E.

Comment #107: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 4:12am ET...

Sandra, use "recover password"

Comment #108: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:12am ET...

Goodnight Ann, I mean Gina...

Comment #109: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:19am ET...

Doug, I would feel a hell of a lot better if Hussein was tried in the World Court. Remember, the Bushies no longer recognize the World Court. They justified this action so US soldiers wouldn't be charged with war crimes. BS!! This was done so Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Perle and of course Feith couldn't be charged for war crimes.

Comment #110: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:27am ET...

gcm,

Which is why the downing street minutes is going to force them to be charged with war crimes.

Britain already has it coming, and anyone under Tony Blair who authorized depleted uranium could be charged with war crimes. Europe is furious.

Remember though, the USA is not part of the ICC.....That's why for Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, Rice, Cheney and their appeasers the perfect War Crime tribunal will be at the Hague....Right where they didn't want to go.

Karl Rove is a saint, he's destroyed himself just to confirm the downing street minutes. Some will one day see him as a martyr, and no matter how evil he got the guy will be worshipped.

Doug E.

Comment #111: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 4:27am ET...

GCM,

If you're referring to Ann Coulter, I haven't seen her hideous face on TV since she looked like the Wicked Witch of the West on that TIME cover.

I'm not complaining, all I know is that if Coulter got run over by a five-mile long freight train filled with hazardous waste, my faith in God would be enhanced significantly.

Comment #112: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:31am ET...

Doug,

I do believe you are correct. Let's keep fueling the fire so these poor excuses for patriots get burned. Re Rove I think you are right there too but I will still micturate on his grave and pass it on as a family duty for generations to come.

Comment #113: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:36am ET...

Rusty, I was in a round about way calling Gina, Ann Coulter albiet a more subdued Ann Coulter because she was lurking in the pond here throwing her little bolts of lightning right wing fascist beliefs.

I saw AC on Leno one night and he made the comment that she looked good. That boy is been smelling way too much exhaust on the Ventura Freeway.

Comment #114: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:41am ET...

All,

Remember how this got so explosive.

June 1, 2005 "Downing Stret Minutes" finally released, the straw that broke the camel's back.

Immediate appearances on all columnist shows and broadcasts:

Karl Rove gets on for damage control, says "its just the opinion of one guy, I mean, it could be said that it never happened."

Fails miserably, then comes back again and starts ranting.

"Conservatives saw 9/11 as a reason to go out and hunt down and kill the terrorists, while the Liberals saw 9/11 as a reason to give therapy and indictments. They are traitors to the country."

7 days later, news report confirms:

Karl Rove leaked CIA classified information on an entire WMD team, breaching national security!!! He's the real traitor, and a lying asshole.

Goes on TV

"I didn't do it. Those damn liberals will say anything!"

Caught by the FBI and prosecutions caseroom.

"I didn't do it. I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT...Oh wait, I first heard about it from a journalist....err I mean i heard about it from staff...yeah that's it."

Rove's face is lambasted across the whole networks, downing street minutes is VINDICATED!

This time instead of being completely distracted from, Rove spun himself into a corner trying to distract and self-destructed the whole gameplan that was to LIE and get everyone into WAR!

Now a man named Robert Timken has been selected for the U.S. ambassador position. And he was intimately involved with Diebold, Karl Rove and election fraud 2004.

Coincidence?! It's time to get someone under OATH!!!

"July 19, 2005 -- President Bush has nominated William Robert Timken, Jr. to be the next U.S. ambassador to Germany. Timken, the head of Canton, Ohio-based Timken Co. and one of the Bush campaign's deep pocketed "Pioneer" half million dollar contributors, also served on the board of directors of Ohio-based Diebold, Inc., the company accused of helping to fix the 2004 presidential elections through the use of faulty and paperless computerized voting machines. Timken conveniently resigned from the board of Diebold on July 5, 2005, just a few weeks prior to Bush nominating him as ambassador to Germany. Note to Democrats on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee: This will be the first time you will be able to get someone so involved with Diebold and the 2004 election under oath during his confirmation hearings. This is something John Conyers would've dearly loved to do over on the House Judiciary Committee -- but official hearings were blocked by the GOP. Senators Biden, Dodd, Feingold, etc.: don't blow this golden opportunity to grill Timken on what he knows about Diebold chairman Walden O'Dell, his comment that he would "do whatever he could" to put Ohio in Bush's column, and pre-programmed Diebold "election engineering." The GOP will argue it has nothing to do with Timken's qualifications to be an ambassador -- but being involved in a crooked election says everything about Timken's integrity."
http://waynemadsenreport.com/

The strategy is clear and there's no turning back now.....We must break down the door of the democrats to get them to bring it up, the Bush Inc. is attempting to put TIMKEN into the US ambassador role because of his ability to be intimately involved in fraud.

The scam is out of the box and we can get the handcuffs out as long as we pounce.

Doug E.

Comment #115: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:47am ET...

Goodnight fellow True Patriots. Keep up the great work.

Comment #116: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 5:10am ET...

Mr. Conyers,

We need more blogs like yours to tackle this very serious issue from multiple fronts.

One member of congress can go all the way on Iraq, another one such as Cynthia McKinney can go all the way on voting rights.

The reality is, there needs to be alot more open blogs with this kind of format or the format of democrats.org

Input is absolutely demanded for these critical times!

Robert Timken, Jr. is nominated to be US Ambassador to Germany.

"WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush has nominated William Robert Timken Jr., an Ohio industrialist and influential Republican donor, to be the next U.S. ambassador to Germany, the White House announced Tuesday.

Timken, 66, serves as executive chairman of the board of the Canton, Ohio-based Timken Co., an alloy steel and bearings manufacturer. He assumed the post after retiring from day-to-day management of the company at the end of 2003.

He succeeds Daniel Coates, whose term ended earlier this year.

Timken, who must be confirmed by the Senate, helped raise funds for Bush's successful re-election campaign"
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/cleveland/index.ssf

He barely resigned from the board of directors of Diebold Inc.

"Diebold's Political Machine
O'Dell is hardly alone in his generous support of the GOP. One of the longest-serving Diebold directors is W.R. "Tim" Timken. Like O'Dell, Timken is a Republican loyalist and a major contributor to GOP candidates. Since 1991 the Timken Company and members of the Timken family have contributed more than a million dollars to the Republican Party and to GOP presidential candidates such as George W. Bush."
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Diebolds_political_0305

Matthew Damschorder has been suspended , the man in OHIO who democrats like Bill Anthony claimed had done no wrong!

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1121765705186991.xml&coll=2

"Columbus- The Franklin County elections board suspended its director Monday for his handling of a $10,000 check from a representative of voting-machine company Diebold.

Elections director Matthew Damschroder, a Republican, was suspended without pay for 30 days. He will continue to work, but he will be docked five days' pay for six two-week pay periods, said board Chairman Bill Anthony. "

What is going on here, Ohio is a cesspool of corruption!!! Are these democrats like Denny White or Anthony actual real democrats? Doesn't look like it!

Real democrats who are awake would never allow this level of vote fraud and corruption. Karl Rove put a pay to play scheme in place for Ohio, in advance.

They all need to be dismantled, how can we let criminals run our OWN voting systems?

Doug E.

Comment #117: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 6:47am ET...

ACLU Calls for Full Examination of Roberts’ Positions; Notes Influence In Troubling Reagan, Bush I Administration Cases

July 19, 2005

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Media@dcaclu.org

WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union today expressed deep concern about some of the civil liberties positions advocated by Judge John Roberts, President Bush's choice to replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor on the Supreme Court.

While serving as principal deputy solicitor general from 1989-1993, he authored briefs calling for Roe v. Wade to be overruled, supporting graduation prayer, and seeking to criminalize flag burning as a form of political protest.

"All these positions were rejected by the Supreme Court," said Steven Shapiro, the ACLU's National Legal Director. "But the Supreme Court remains closely divided on many of these questions."

As a senior Justice Department official, Roberts was in a position to help shape the government's legal positions as well as represent them.

At a minimum, the Senate should determine the extent to which the positions taken in these briefs also reflect Roberts's personal views.

Judge John Roberts was appointed to the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals in May 2003. He received his undergraduate and law degrees from Harvard University and clerked for Justice Rehnquist. He served in a number of positions in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations, including as principal deputy solicitor general from 1989 to 1993.

"The Supreme Court has played a pivotal role in advancing freedom," said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director. "Without the Supreme Court, the South would still be segregated, illegal abortions would be claiming thousands of lives, the indigent would have no right to a lawyer, and lesbian and gay Americans could be imprisoned for their private sexual conduct."

"The stakes could not be higher," Romero added.

The ACLU will only oppose a Supreme Court nominee on a majority vote of its 83 person national board.

Comment #118: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 6:50am ET...

Next Saturday, July 23, is the three-year anniversary of the meeting at #10 Downing Street in London that was recorded in the now infamous minutes known as the "Downing Street Memo." Suggesting that the Bush Administration was intent on going to war with Iraq with or without intelligence on Saddam's WMD, the memo has given new impetus (and vindication) to antiwar critics of the invasion.

To highlight these disclosures, AfterDowningStreet.org, a new and growing coalition of veterans' groups and activist organizations working with Rep. John Conyers, has organized hundreds of events, dramatic performances, house parties and study circles planned coast to coast next July 23. At least eight events will involve members of Congress. Click here to see what's happening in your area.

In New York City, The Nation and Democrats.Com are teaming up to present a public forum at the New York Society of Ethical Culture featuring Rep. Maurice Hinchey, the Hon. Liz Holtzman, Air America host Randi Rhodes and Bob Fertik, President of Democrats.com. The event starts at 2:00 and is free to the public. Click here for more info and click here to read Holtzman's recent Nation mag piece outlining the legal case that could and should be made against senior Bush officials for the torture at Abu Ghraib.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=6706

Comment #119: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 6:57am ET...

Doug,

I had heard that the Bush campaign stop at Timkin was a full blown staged event and that the week after, half those people lost their jobs.

Another criminal fleeing the country in a 'promotion' pay back.

YES. The Senate needs to dig deep.

Comment #120: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 7:08am ET...

The Administration of Scandals:

News updated Wednesday, 20 July 2005 05:00 GMT

Get Out the Vote By Seymour M. Hersh

Did Washington try to manipulate Iraq's election? 18 Jul 2005 "A State Department official confirmed that there was an effort to give direct funding to certain candidates [for the 'election' in Iraq, 30 January 2005]. 'The goal was to level the playing field, and Allawi was not the sole playing field,' he said. Warrick was not operating on his own, the State Department official said. 'This issue went to high levels, and was approved'—within the State Department and by others in the Bush Administration, in the late spring of 2004."

http://www.legitgov.org/index.html#breaking_news

Comment #121: stoufi1 said on 7/20/05 @ 7:17am ET...

#55

Doug's headline:

"Britain generals in Iraq charged with War Crimes: To be tried in the U.K. and ICC rather than the Hague."

I read the article in your link. There aren't any generals mentioned, except Attorney General Lord Goldsmith. Where did you get your headline? Here's what it really is:

"Three British soldiers to face war crimes charges over Iraq abuse"

#84 Doug

You said:

"Also if the states decided anything to do with abortion or women's rights, any mindless nobody could appeal the case to the supreme courts......THUS making sure it was permanently banned."

That is what's been called judicial activism, judges legislating from the courts by inventing new rights, something not allowed in the Constitution. If the SCOTUS ruled that all abortions are illegal and overturn any state laws allowing them, they would be guilty of the same type of judicial activism. This is not what conservatives want. We want a justice who will let state laws stand and overturn those that truly violate the Constitution.

Then you said:

"And that is where anarchy will begin, allowing the SCOTUS to interefere with state rights."

The rights of the states have already been interfered with by the SCOTUS. Roe v. Wade did that. Look at the ridiculous ruling in Roper v. Simmons.

Overturning Roe doesn't mean the outlawing of abortion. It just takes abortion back to the states, where abortion laws belong.

Gina did a great job stating the same thing.

Comment #122: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 8:05am ET...

stoufi,

Once again your talking points are pure BS and should be dismissed out of sight.

Nowhere does it say generals being tried on war crimes

What is all this, may I ask once again?

"It is further alleged that two other servicemen inhumanely treated the prisoners, who sustained injuries following repeated assaults.

Lance Corporal Wayne Crowcroft , 21, and Private Darren Fallon, 22, both of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, are also charged under the ICC Act.

Four other servicemen face lesser charges in the same case.

Sergeant Kelvin Stacey , 28, of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment, is alleged to have assaulted a detainee and faces a charge of assault causing actual bodily harm, alternatively common assault.

The three remaining servicemen are charged with negligently performing their duties or neglecting to perform a duty, contrary to the Army Act 1955.

They are Warrant Officer Mark Davies, 36, of the Intelligence Corps , Major Michael Peebles , 34, of the Intelligence Corps, and Colonel Jorge Mendonca , 41, lately of the Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

In his statement, Lord Goldsmith said cases against all seven were reviewed by prosecutors at the Army Prosecuting Authority, which was satisfied that there is "a realistic prospect of convicting all defendants and that the prosecutions are in the public interest."

In the second case, the army prosecutor ordered four servicemen to stand trial for the manslaughter of Ahmed Kareem, an Iraqi civilian."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050719/wl_mideast_afp/iraqbritainjustice

Just where in the heck do you get these talking points? Do you not like facts or something? At least 7 are set to be convicted, a Major, Corporal, Superintendant and Seargent are going to be tried at the ICC.

Under order of Lord Goldsmith they are not to be tried at the Hague. And these were criminal acts most likely authorized by Jack Straw because the rank doesn't get much higher than Warrant Officer.

Overturning Roe doesn't mean the outlawing of abortion. It just takes abortion back to the states, where abortion laws belong

Would you stop pretending and face reality for ONCE? It means abortions will be outlawed in most states, several states will decide against banning abortion.

Just like the segregated south once again the radicals on the right, freepers and completely insane religious fundies will push for a ban of all abortions.

Then you realize they, in all states can appeal to the supreme court? And with the SCOTUS decision, abortions can then be banned in all those states, the crazy fundies disagree with

This means the total takeover of the out of control freeper wing of your party, stoufi. Some "conservatism" there.

If this wasn't so out of control, overturning Roe V Wade WOULD NOT MATTER ONE BIT. However, it is completely out of control and the religious right is on a crusade that is totally illegal.

NOW and in the future.

Doug E.

Comment #123: Nolip said on 7/20/05 @ 8:22am ET...

The Cherry Tree and other American myth's and myth makers...

George Washington: "No father, I did not chop down the cherry tree".

Karl Rove to Matt Cooper: "Augustine Washington's kid works in the cherry orchard...he has some high level clearance...his dad gave him an ax."

George Bush: First: "Anyone revealing who worked in the cherry orchard will no longer work in my Administration".

Later (after Rove is revealed): "I will fire anyone who committed a federal crime by chopping down cherry trees."

Much later (after Rove is convicted): "Today I award a pardon to my faithful and trusted deputy chief of staff, Karl Rove. I am surprised at the outcome of the trial, given the facts in this case."

Much later after Bush has been impeached: "No father, I did not chop down Saddam Hussein. Karl Rove did".

Comment #124: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 8:26am ET...

Do you agree with Pres. Bush's handling of the CIA leak investigation?

No
80%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/#survey

Comment #125: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 8:32am ET...

"It's not actually the leak anymore, but the cover-up," said Kenneth Warren, professor of political science at St. Louis University. "It's hard to justify the very clear comments ... made that Karl Rove was not involved and Bush saying that anyone who leaked would be held accountable. Now they are stonewalling."

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/politics/12163556.htm

Comment #126: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 8:39am ET...

Attorney General Lord Goldsmith and investigator Greg Palast agree that the U.S.A and Britain are now guilty of War Crimes.

That is very interesting news....

It all started on Downing Street!!

Why don't you answer our questions "Bush admin", we got way past downing street....Are you afraid answering those questions might UNRAVEL EVERYTHING?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/9/191334/0754

"Two days later, JeffGannon.com debuts online (July 24, 2003).

Mr. Wilson was interviewed on a few shows and mentioned that if what Novak alleged was true, then as David Corn in the Nation wrote, a crime might have been committed. For months the news is filled with angry ex-CIA officials and journalists covering the outing of an undercover operative for political reasons by the administration. The CIA files a `crime report' with the Department of Justice and finally calls for an investigation.

The Department of Justice decides an investigation is warranted on September 26, 2003. After that point Mr. Wilson begins to appear in the news regularly and to openly denounce the administration for using his wife and potentially endangering other operatives for political purposes.

On September 28, 2003 a source inside the administration tells the Washington Post that at least 6 other journalists were contacted with the leak and claims: "Clearly, it was meant purely and simply for revenge." He stated that he was sharing the information because the disclosure was "wrong and a huge miscalculation, because they were irrelevant and did nothing to diminish Wilson's credibility.""

Hey now, did Jeff bob Gannon get on that plane and then later at the White House Gannon, Libby and Rove discussed its confirmed classified& contents?

Doug E.

Comment #127: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 8:39am ET...

Republicans Must Choose: Bush Or America?

~snip

Rove may avoid prosecution under the Intelligence Identities and Protection Act, says John Dean, counsel at the Nixon White House. "There is, however, evidence suggesting that other laws were violated," he says, alluding to Title 18, Section 641 of the U.S. Code. The "leak of sensitive [government] information" for personal purposes--say, outting the CIA wife of your boss' enemy--is "a very serious crime," according to the judge presiding over a similar recent case. If convicted under the anti-leak statute, Rove would face ten years in a federal prison.

Even if Rove originally learned about Plame's status from jailed New York Times journalist Judith Miller, Dean continues, "it could make for some interesting pairing under the federal conspiracy statute (which was the statute most commonly employed during Watergate)." Conspiracy will get you five years at Hotel Graybar.

Rove's betrayal of a CIA WMD expert--while the U.S. was using WMDs as a reason to invade Iraq--is virtually indistinguishable from Robert Hanssen's selling out of American spies. Both allowed America's enemies to learn the identities of covert operatives. Both are traitors. Both are eligible for the death penalty.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9511.htm

Comment #128: Ohiodem1 said on 7/20/05 @ 8:49am ET...

In May, 2004, Timken announced the closing of its three remaining roller bearing factories in Canton Ohio, and outsourced ALL manufacturing to China. You cannot buy a Timken Roller bearing that is made in America.

Diebold just purchased a company in Gao (India) to manufacture ATM's, will they outsource Voting Machine and software development next?

Ohio has lost over 200,000 manufacturing jobs since George W. Bush took office in 2000. Do you think the new amasssador to Germany, a man who clearly has no diplomatic training will be qualified for the job? Or will he be there to scout out new outsourcing locations for American manufacturing, perhaps in the economically distressed former East German area?

Comment #129: pkmlk said on 7/20/05 @ 8:53am ET...

http://shows.airamericaradio.com/ms/node/746

It's Not About Rove

Jonathan Larsen's blog

"As encouraging as it is to see the corporate media press the White House on the Rove scandal, their pressure will only mean anything if they, and the American people, come to the realization that this isn't about Rove. In fact, despite what many on the left have argued, it's not even about WMDs or Iraq. It's about one thing only...

"It's about the president.

"Consider Watergate. Watergate didn't bring down Richard Nixon from the outside. Nixon didn't succumb to the external weight of Watergate. Watergate brought Nixon down because it allowed America to see that Watergate wasn't something outside of Nixon's control, Watergate wasn't even an extreme to which Nixon had strayed; Watergate was Nixon. It was his very essence.

"The same holds true with Rove-gate (if we must call it that). President Bush has not chosen Karl Rove as his architect despite Rove's excesses. President Bush has made Karl Rove his most trusted, most powerful aide precisely because of Rove's excesses. Pres. Bush knew full well that the first Pres. Bush fired Rove for leaking to Novak more than ten years ago. That didn't disqualify him for the job, that was WHY Bush likes him.

"Now, Pres. Bush's inability to take the same step his father took (without a criminal investigation, by the way) must be interpreted as his endorsement of everything Rove is and does. Rove smears people because Bush wants him to. Rove lies because Bush wants him to. Rove turns everything into politics because Bush doesn't know what his father knew -- that there exists some line beyond which service to country must trump political victory (that's why Bush Sr. could renege on his "no new taxes" pledge).

"The question should not be whether Bush will fire Rove. The answer is clearly that he will not unless he is absolutely forced to (as the president essentially acknowledged when he said only a criminal record would disqualify someone from working in his White House). It's time for the White House press corps to stop asking under what circumstances Bush will fire Rove. It's time for the White House press corps to start treating this incident as something that happened outside Bush's ken and without his permission. The president's administration has stonewalled both criminal inquiry (see Murray Waas's report that Rove wasn't fully forthcoming with the FBI) and public inquiry on this matter. The president has sent his functionaries out to switch the storyline from "leak" to "whistleblower." And the president himself has said that he will keep Rove in the White House unless Rove is removed by force of law.

"The president has now taken ownership of Rove's actions. It's time for the White House press corps to start asking him to explain Rove's actions as if they were his own. Because now they are."

Comment #130: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 8:55am ET...

Ohiodem,

Just remember he is an election fraud artist shilling for Diebold. Why resign from Diebold just before nomination?

Obviously to get big corporate money and put fraudulent voting systems in the country of Germany and elsewhere.

How more obvious can it GET? It's as blatant as night and day, they are promoting stealth dictatorships in other countries too.

And all for the price of a million more corporate dollars in Oil.

Doug E.

Comment #131: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 8:57am ET...

Ohiodem1,

So they closed the whole operation down after that Bush cameo at Timken?

Is there no end to the madness?

-----------------

I saw the NRA cancelled their convention there in Columbus. At least the City Council was effective on that issue of assault weapons. Unfortunately, NRA will keep peddling these weapons elsewhere.

-------------

Also, sending you an email.

Comment #132: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 9:07am ET...

Remember the framing debate:

Do not do anything with Roberts and keep it low key, unless it is found he wants to overturn Roe V Wade.

That is the WHOLE undercurrent issue, tar and feather him and frame the entire thing before the limelight if he is looking at overturning Roe V Wade.

Otherwise focus all the way in on the DSM, do not worry about Rove's pick Roberts. He should be blasted and character assassinated if it is proven he is supporting overturning Roe, that should be the constant message.

Doug E.

Comment #133: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 9:22am ET...

Back in the CIA....

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_07_17.php#006139

Letters to the entire senate and house from officers of the CIA, demanding immediate accountability to taking care of these leaks.

"The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives
The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives
The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate
The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate

We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the
tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of
Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of
former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert
Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an
undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful
event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have
damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S.
intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of
confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and,
directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers
and their sources.

The Republican National Committee has circulated talking points to
supporters to use as part of a coordinated strategy to discredit Ambassador
Joseph Wilson and his wife. As part of this campaign a common theme is
the idea that Ambassador Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame was not undercover
and deserved no protection. The following are four recent examples of this
“talking point”:

Michael Medved stated on Larry King Live on July 12, 2005, “And let's
be honest about this. Mrs. Plame, Mrs. Wilson, had a desk job
at Langley. She went back and forth every single day.”
Victoria Toensing stated on a Fox News program with John Gibson on
July 12, 2005 that, “Well, they weren't taking affirmative
measures to protect that identity. They gave her a desk job in
Langley. You don't really have somebody deep undercover
going back and forth to Langley, where people can see them.”
Ed Rodgers, Washington Lobbyist and former Republican official, said
on July 13, 2005 on the Newshour with Jim Lehrer, “And also I think
it is now a matter of established fact that Mrs. Plame was not a
protected covert agent, and I don't think there's any
meaningful investigation about that.”
House majority whip Roy Blunt (R, Mo), on Face the Nation, July 17,
2005, “It certainly wouldn't be the first time that the CIA might
have been overzealous in sort of maintaining the kind of topsecret
definition on things longer than they needed to. You
know, this was a job that the ambassador's wife had that she
went to every day. It was a desk job. I think many people in
Washington understood that her employment was at the CIA,
and she went to that office every day.”

These comments reveal an astonishing ignorance of the intelligence
community and the role of cover. The fact is that there are thousands of
U.S. intelligence officers who “work at a desk” in the Washington, D.C. area
every day who are undercover. Some have official cover, and some have
non-official cover. Both classes of cover must and should be protected.
While we are pleased that the U.S. Department of Justice is conducting an
investigation and that the U.S. Attorney General has recused himself, we
believe that the partisan attacks against Valerie Plame are sending a deeply
discouraging message to the men and women who have agreed to work
undercover for their nation’s security.

We are not lawyers and are not qualified to determine whether the leakers
technically violated the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act. However,
we are confident that Valerie Plame was working in a cover status and that
our nation’s leaders, regardless of political party, have a duty to protect all
intelligence officers. We believe it is appropriate for the President to move
proactively to dismiss from office or administratively punish any official who
participated in any way in revealing Valerie Plame's status. the President
would send an unambiguous message that leaks of this nature will not be
tolerated and would be consistent with his duties
as the Commander-in-Chief.

We also believe it is important that Congress speak with one non-partisan
voice on this issue. Intelligence officers should not be used as political
footballs. In the case of Valerie Plame, she still works for the CIA and is not
in a position to publicly defend her reputation and honor. We stand in her
stead and ask that Republicans and Democrats honor her service to her
country and stop the campaign of disparagement and innuendo aimed at
discrediting Mrs. Wilson and her husband.

Our friends and colleagues have difficult jobs gathering the intelligence,
which helps, for example, to prevent terrorist attacks against Americans at
home and abroad. They sometimes face great personal risk and must spend
long hours away from family and friends. They serve because they love this
country and are committed to protecting it from threats from abroad and to
defending the principles of liberty and freedom. They do not expect public
acknowledgement for their work, but they do expect and deserve their
government’s protection of their covert status.

For the good of our country, we ask you to please stand up for every man
and woman who works for the U.S. intelligence community and help protect
their ability to live their cover.

Sincerely yours,
_
Larry C. Johnson, former Analyst, CIA
JOINED BY:
Mr. Brent Cavan, former Analyst, CIA
Mr. Vince Cannistraro, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. Michael Grimaldi, former Analyst, CIA
Mr. Mel Goodman, former senior Analyst, CIA
Col. W. Patrick Lang (US Army retired), former Director, Defense Humint
Services, DIA
Mr. David MacMichael, former senior estimates officer, National Intelligence
Council, CIA
Mr. James Marcinkowski, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. Ray McGovern, former senior Analyst and PDB Briefer, CIA
Mr. Jim Smith, former Case Officer, CIA
Mr. William C. Wagner, former Case Officer, CIA "

Well well.....Ask in the senate judiciary of this nomination, what Roberts thinks about LEAKING the names of CIA operatives and endangering national security everywhere?

That and.....It's about time we get to the bottom of DOWNING STREET, it's been time, lets rip the carpet out from under the lies.

Doug E.

Comment #134: Bumpa said on 7/20/05 @ 9:32am ET...

At first I had m' doubts I'd post here....I think the 'children' stayed up passed their bedtime.

"Do NOT Be Distracted" - should become a banner for us all. Bush LIED! Bush lied us into a war in Iraq, he lied when he says the Iraqi war is against Terror, He lied when he said we were going to get Osama Bin Laden, when he said his tax cut for the wealthy would help stimulate the economy it was a lie, he's lied about Social Security, the environment, he lied in his State of the Union Addresses, WMD, GITMO, Abu Grehb, his military service, the list goes on and on and on, he's lied about just about everything I can think of.

All the hubbub about Rove and Wilson/Plame is a direct outpouring from Bush's lies and Wilson's calling him on it. So the liar is offended by being call what he is - a liar and has Rove et al step on Wilson and his family and make up more lies because there is no room for the truth. BUT if through their lying they can change the subject enough times and distract the seekers of truth and confuse the issue the lies may find credibility.

Rusty, Gina, NO DUmmy, it's past your bedtime - go to bed children, and don't confuse the issue.

Comment #135: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 10:10am ET...

Casualty of War: The US Economy
By James Sterngold
The San Francisco Chronicle

Sunday 17 July 2005

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have already cost taxpayers $314 billion, and the Congressional Budget Office projects additional expenses of perhaps $450 billion over the next 10 years.

That could make the combined campaigns, especially the war in Iraq, the most expensive military effort in the last 60 years, causing even some conservative experts to criticize the open-ended commitment to an elusive goal. The concern is that the soaring costs, given little weight before now, could play a growing role in U.S. strategic decisions because of the fiscal impact.

"Osama (bin Laden) doesn't have to win; he will just bleed us to death," said Michael Scheuer, a former counterterrorism official at the CIA who led the pursuit of bin Laden and recently retired after writing two books critical of the Clinton and Bush administrations. "He's well on his way to doing it."

The Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, a nonpartisan Washington think tank, has estimated that the Korean War cost about $430 billion and the Vietnam War cost about $600 billion, in current dollars. According to the latest estimates, the cost of the war in Iraq could exceed $700 billion.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/071805G.shtml

Comment #136: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 11:02am ET...

#79 Thank you.
I don't spend my life crying over my loses, I was overcome with grief momentarily and did some unprotected crying (as I didn't put a condom on my face). I have some pictures on the desk here in our media room and the "history repeats" feeling was almost too much to bear. I am grateful My brother has the peace in death, He couldn't find in life.

We need to keep the pressure on Rove and not let the far right try to grab the conversation and turn it their way. Stay on point, our children's freedom depends on it.
Time to get breakfast for the kids and get them on to their activities. Have a happy and productive day all.

Comment #137: jimsisco said on 7/20/05 @ 11:09am ET...

Anyone see Seymour Hersch on Democracy Now! yesterday? He was talking about his new piece in the New Yorker on how the admin tried to fix the Iraq elections for Allawi and how sources tell him the admin did it off the books because Congress wouldn't allow it. He talked about the corruption in the admin and military in Iraq, ,the $20 billion missing in funds. Well worth a read if you can find it.

Comment #138: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 1:05pm ET...

wow could we have been wrong about this too just like Rove.

Saddam/Osama links grow and grow
The Weekly Standard is doing the type of work investigative journalists at major daily newspapers used to do:

Just days after Operation Desert Fox concluded one of Saddam's most loyal and trusted intelligence operatives, Faruq Hijazi, was dispatched to Afghanistan. He met with senior leaders from the Taliban and then with bin Laden and his cohorts on December 21.

While we cannot be sure what transpired at this meeting, we can be sure that it was not some benign event. In fact, within days of the meeting bin Laden loudly declared his opposition to the U.S.-led missile strikes on Iraq and called on all Muslims to strike U.S. and British targets, including civilians, around the world. According to press accounts at the time, bin Laden explained, "The British and the American people loudly declared their support for their leaders' decision to attack Iraq." He added that the citizens' support for their governments made it "the duty of Muslims to confront, fight, and kill" them.

Bin Laden's words sounded alarm bells around the world. Countless media outlets scurried to uncover the details of the relationship between Saddam's regime and al Qaeda. Dozens of news outlets--foreign and domestic--reported on the growing relationship and its ominous implications...

The first alarm was rung by Milan's Corriere Della Sera on December 28. In the bluntest manner, the newspaper reported, "Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Ladin have sealed a pact." Saddam's regime and bin Laden's global terrorist network had united against the common enemy, the U.S. and her allies. In preparation for the coming terrorist war, Saddam had even offered bin Laden safehaven.

Just days later, on January 1, 1999, the Paris-based, pan-Arab magazine Al-Watan Al-Arabi expanded on the details of the new terrorist alliance. High-level representatives from both organizations had been meeting for months.

Comment #139: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 1:16pm ET...

jc sure knows how to play to you guys, for a small donation he'll send you the DVD on rovegate and the DSM. With black home ownership up in the US and blacks becoming the fastest growing segment in the Republican Party, race bating will no longer work for him. So you guys that thrive on this blog frenzy master investigating conspiracy theorist are playing right into his trap. I don’t know what will be discussed at the house party and town meetings if anyone even shows, but I do know one thing and that the hat will sure be passed around.

The Public has moved on from messy CIA leak case

Could the Karl Rove/Valerie Plame case get any messier?

After days of being accused of leaking classified information from the White House, it turned out last week that the leak was from columnist Robert Novak to Karl Rove and not the other way around.

The Associated Press reported that Rove testified to a grand jury that Novak told him he planned to write about Plame and her CIA job in a column.

Now, Time magazine's Matt Cooper said Rove did mention Plame to him but not by name and when asked if such a conversation was criminal, Rove said, "beats me."

It is against federal law for government officials to reveal the identities of those working as undercover officers. But to actually charge any official, prosecutors have to prove that the person knew the agent was undercover and revealed the identity anyway.

And that's why this case is now such a fine mess.

First of all, Plame was not an undercover officer when Novak wrote the column. Her own husband, former ambassador and Bush critic Joseph Wilson, acknowledges that.

Secondly, when Rove testified before the grand jury, prosecutors told him he was not a target of the investigation.

Prosecutors went after reporters Cooper and Judith Miller of the New York Times to try to force them to name their sources. Cooper had written a story about the case after Novak wrote his column. Miller was in the process of reporting the story.

It was widely assumed that Rove was the source. Now that's completely unclear.

Cooper was released by his source to testify before the grand jury. Miller is now cooling her heels in jail for refusing to name her source.

If prosecutors went after reporters, must they now go after whoever leaked grand jury testimony?

And does anybody care about his case anymore? The American people have moved on to better issues, if they were ever riveted by this one in the first place. Remember Whitewater? Few people do.

This case is all about politics - lots of heat and very little light. Let Judith Miller out of jail and send everyone home.

Comment #140: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 1:26pm ET...

Reporter: mr. rove is it true that wilson's wife at the CIA sent him to Africa?

Reporter: mr. rove have you stopped beating your wife?

No matter how he answer each question. yes or no.

He is a leakier and a wife beater.

It's time to move-on.org

Comment #141: Rusty said on 7/20/05 @ 1:31pm ET...

Bumpa: "Rusty, Gina, NO DUmmy, it's past your bedtime - go to bed children, and don't confuse the issue."

Bumpa, please accept my apologies for posting childish, confusing comments for the past eight weeks. I can't believe Admin hasn't banned me yet for being a naive dupe of the Rovians.

Comment #142: tahoebasha1 said on 7/20/05 @ 1:55pm ET...

THE ROVE/LIBBY PROBLEM!

The statement below indicates the magnitude and how far-reaching this dreadful leak of a CIA Operative has affected the many lives of others involved in covert activities. This is one of the most despicable advents ever.
(See: http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/16838/88864 – for entire story)

“Sensitive CIA operations that were compromised by the leak included companies, government officials, and individuals associated with the nuclear smuggling network of Pakistan's chief nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. In addition, the identities of U.S. national and foreign agents working within the headquarters of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, North Korea's nuclear laboratory in Yongbyon, Pakistan's Kahuta uranium enrichment plant, banks and export companies in Dubai, Islamabad, Moscow, Cape Town, Tel Aviv, Liechtenstein, Cyprus, and Kiev, and Kuala Lumpur, and government agencies in Libya, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Iran were severely compromised. The CIA has reportedly given Fitzgerald highly classified details on the damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network.”

(See: http://sparky-mcgruff.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/7/3/16838/88864 – for entire story)

Here is an excerpt from former CIA Agents who have gone to bat for Ms. Wilson and the CIA, itself.

(See http://www.crooksandliars.com/stories/2005/07/19/ciaAgentsLetterToUsSenateAndHouse.html – for entire story.)

“CIA Agents Letter to US Senate and House
18 July 2005

AN OPEN STATEMENT TO THE LEADERS OF THE UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE SENATE.

The Honorable Dennis Hastert, Speaker, U.S. House of Representatives

The Honorable Nancy Pelosi, Minority Leader, U.S. House of Representatives

The Honorable Dr. William Frist, Majority Leader of the Senate

The Honorable Harry Reid, Minority Leader of the Senate

We, the undersigned former U.S. intelligence officers are concerned with the tone and substance of the public debate over the ongoing Department of Justice investigation into who leaked the name of Valerie Plame, wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson IV, to syndicated columnist Robert Novak and other members of the media, which exposed her status as an undercover CIA officer. The disclosure of Ms. Plame’s name was a shameful event in American history and, in our professional judgment, may have damaged U.S. national security and poses a threat to the ability of U.S. intelligence gathering using human sources. Any breach of the code of confidentiality and cover weakens the overall fabric of intelligence, and, directly or indirectly, jeopardizes the work and safety of intelligence workers and their sources.

The Republican National Committee has circulated talking points to supporters to use as part of a coordinated strategy to discredit Ambassador Joseph Wilson and his wife. As part of this campaign a common theme is the idea that Ambassador Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame was not undercover and deserved no protection. The following are four recent examples of this "talking point":”

Comment #143: LenaDavid said on 7/20/05 @ 2:09pm ET...

I agree with Rusty. I don't know how you live with your hypocricy and Phariseeism, Gina. Jesus stated to the SELF-Righteous Pharisees:

"THOU HYPOCRITES, You cross sea and land to make one convert and when you do you make them two-fold the child of Hell as yourselves."

Note what Jesus says many, many times about stealing from the weak and vulnerable in all the passages about cheating and taking the homes of the widow and orphan, or the most vulnerable members of society.

In Isaiah - God says "Your sacrifices and burnt offerings stink in my nostrils. This is the
sacrifice I require, that you feed the hungry, Defend the widow and the orphan and those falsely appointed to die. (Iraqis and Arab children slaughtered in Bush's genocidal war)

Get a heart as Jesus said so many times. Stop skipping the most important passages in the
Bible. Find a Concordance or use one of the ones online and look up the more than a thousand references to the poor and the DUTY of all Christians and those who will make it into heaven to those who are suffering.

You might want to read the very long passage in the Gospel of Luke where Jesus tells VERY SPECIFICALLY who will get into heaven.

" I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was naked and you clothed me, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me and you will ask:

'When Lord did we see you a-hungered or thirsty or in need'

and I will say, Inasmuch as you did this to the least of these my breathern, you did it to me.

Come and inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

And in case, "Christians" don't get the link between living with Jesus in Heaven and going to Hell or a place of Purging and their attitude and treatment of the poor that you insult and defile with your stone heart - see Isaiah and the Old Testament as to the punishments of those who say they have done it themselves and steal the widows and orphans houses and
do not give God credit and SHARE WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN YOU WITH THE POOR,

Jesus repeats it but this time with the hypocritial "Christians" and their final reward.

Self-proclaimed Christians will say to the Lord, bragging, 'We have done many mightly works in YOUR NAME.'

But Jesus will say to them, "Depart from me I NEVER KNEW YOU.

" I was hungry and you DIDN'T give me anything to eat, I was thirsty and you DIDN'T give me anything to drink, I was naked and you DIDN'T clothe me, I was a stranger and
you DIDN'T welcomed me, I was sick and you DIDN'T visit me, I was in prison and you DIDN'T come to me and you will ask:

'When Lord did we see you a-hungered or thirsty or in need and I will say, Inasmuch as you did IT NOT to this to the least of these my breathern, you did it NOT unto me.

Depart into outer darkness and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (for all eternity)

Judge not according to the appearance but judge the righteous judgement. What is right is
written in your hearts.

“To Make Something Beautiful for God” as Mother Theresa said her aim in live was to serve Jesus under the distressing disguise of the poor.

Change your heart Gina.

"Gina said on 7/20/05 @ 12:54am ET...

I think liberals have demonized themselves. Social programs that keep people dependent on the government, always pointing the finger at the other guy instead of cleaning up their own house, taxing the rich to give to the poor (which only serves to give less money to support capitalism which is what needs to survive in order for people to have jobs, make goods). I mean what's the incentive to try and work hard for a better paying job if all it means is a higher tax bracket which the government is going to take more?

I think Jesus is God."

Somebody tell Gina about the billion dollars Neil Bush stole from the American people in the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal, Neil Bush was banned from banking for life but he has spent the last decade betraying Americans by selling their jobs to the Red Chinese. HereInReality.com

George H.W. Bush stole trillions from the US Treasury. See Al Martin's site.

Bush, Jr. has embezzled Social Security, not just the interest but the Trust Fund. Enron, who was the first of many to be found out that they stole the pensions that their employees had worked their lifetimes for on parties and contributions to the NeoCON Republicans didn't bother Junior, he rode in Ken Lay's private jet to his first "inauguration" and the money stolen from Enron employees and World.com employee pension fund has yet to be paid back by seizing the assets of those who brazenly stole them.

United Airlines welshed on their employees pension funds and a man who was laid off just before retirement by United Airlines (another little Bush Crime Family trick on the American people) now does not even have his limited pension fund because he was laid off after so many years of service JUST BEFORE RETIREMENT and now the illegal Bush government states that United Airlines can steal their pensions and the man wrote that before any other company can steal their employees pensions by saying they are broke - the CEOs and other executives have to give up their GOLDEN PARACHUTES.

Cheney is still receiving 3/4 of a million dollars a year from his Halluburton "golden parachute".

Other Airlines and companies will soon be complaining that United received unfair competitive advantage and will BE STEALING YOUR PENSION NEXT. And Bush has already stolen Social Security which people spent their working lives paying into.

AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE AND STUPIDITY TO BLAME THE POOR FOR THE FAILURE OF UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM AND IGNORE THE NEW ROBBER BARONS AND I WOULD BET YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THE OLD ROBBER BARONS.

Read some history about the suffering when there were no child labor laws (1/2 of the homeless are children), Social Security Retirement or safety net for those who fall ill through no fault of their own and since you don't believe in abortion, who is going to pay for the care of the severely disabled, WILL YOU VOLUNTEER?

Comment #144: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 2:19pm ET...

I'll volunteer lena. That's our moto at

www.278acr.com

Comment #145: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:25pm ET...

hcocdr, good evening, went to your NG site. Impressive. Tennesee is the Volunteer state yes, but sorry, I'm not sure why that name was chosen for the state motto. Please educate me.

Truthfully now, are the MREs better than C rations?

Comment #146: Ohiodem1 said on 7/20/05 @ 2:26pm ET...

Sandra #131 - The corporate offices remain in Canton, and the corporate offices for Diebold are also in Canton, or close by Canton in Northeast Ohio.

In a surprise announcement, a defense accounting facility in Whitehall, Ohio, a Columbus suburb, which stood to gain many jobs in the BRAC shuffle, was put back on the list, and dropped back into a pool with 25 other facilities. The base closing commission recommended that 26 centers nationally be put back into the same pool for "reevaluation".

Ohio has two somewhat independent Senators (DeWine and Voinovich). Is this an attempt to blackmail or bribe Senators into line re: the Roberts nominiation, and other political questions that are being kicked around. The potential job swing in Central Ohio is 3500 well-paid positions.

Will the Bush administration stoop to using jobs to bribe or intimidate Senators into supporting Roberts or other administration political positions?

Has anyone else using this blog seen similar tactics being used around the country? Denver and Indinanpolis are the other cities that have been placed back in the pool. What Senators are involved there?

From the Columbus Dispatch:

(snip)

• Naval Air Station, Brunswick, Maine. Initially slated by the Pentagon for downsizing, the commission voted to consider closing it altogether.

• Naval Master Jet Base, Naval Air Station Oceana, Va. Initially slated for downsizing, the commission voted to consider closing it altogether or further shrinking the base.

• Navy Broadway Complex, San Diego. Originally left off the Pentagon’s list, the commission voted to consider closing the base.

• Pope Air Force Base, N.C. Currently on the list to be downsized, the commission voted to consider closing it altogether or further shrinking the base.

• Galena Airport Forward Operating Location, Alaska. Originally left off the Pentagon’s list, the commission voted to consider closing or reducing forces at the base.
(Snip)
Who are the Senators involved?

(snip)
Added the following to the closure or consolidation list as it considers whether to merge administrative , education and medical facilities :

• Defense Finance Accounting Services: Facilities in Columbus; Buckley Annex, Colo.; Indianapolis.

• Professional Development Education: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, Calif.; Defense Language Institute, Monterey, Calif.; Air Force Institute of Technology at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio.

• Joint Medical Command Headquarters: Navy Bureau of Medicine, Potomac Annex, Washington, D.C.; Air Force Medical Command, Bolling Air Force Base, Washington, D.C.; TRICARE Management Authority and Office of the Army Surgeon General, both in Virginia.
(snip)
Who are the Senators?

(snip)

Voted to keep these bases off the list :

• Marine Corps Recruit Depot, San Diego

• Naval Shipyard, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii

• Moody Air Force Base, Ga.

• Grand Forks Air Force Base, N.D. Currently on the list to be downsized, a vote would have changed the base’s designation to closure or further downsizing.

(snip)

Who are the Senators?

Columbus Dispatch links (non subscribers must pay)
Base closing tinkering

Base closing article

I find the timing suspicious. Talk about political distraction.

Has anyone else noted political shakedowns by the adminstration?

Comment #147: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 2:33pm ET...

Every battle from kings mountain to iraq, TN men have answered the call with more showing up then requested. Several cities in Texes are named after the men from TN that took it back from Mexico. KBR feeds us here we don't have to eat MRE. Fri nights are stake and lobster nites.

Comment #148: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 2:39pm ET...

147: hcocdr
"Fri nights are stake and lobster nites". Would that be metal or wood?

Comment #149: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 2:50pm ET...

Ron,
Way to go. You are my first tonight. I misspell words in my post in order for you guys to have something to do. You sure can't refute the points I make.

Comment #150: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 2:53pm ET...

#148 Ron, be nice to the good Captain. He is constantly in danger of being offed by the crazies who think they will be rewarded with 72 virgins for their martyrdom.

Captain, thanks for the history lesson. One thing though, what conflict is the Kings mountain action from? You pick up your commission through ROTC at UT or the regular route via West Point?

Comment #151: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:00pm ET...

Battle of Kings Mountain

October 7, 1780, near the North and South Carolina border

The plateau of the mountain is in Cleveland County, NC

The battlefield and park are in York County, SC

Historians consider the Battle of Kings Mountain to be the "turning point in the South" in America's War for Independence. The victory of Patriots over Loyalist troops destroyed the left wing of Cornwallis' army. The battle also effectively ended, at least temporarily, the British advance into North Carolina. Lord Cornwallis was forced to retreat from Charlotte into South Carolina to wait for reinforcements. The victory of the Overmountain Men allowed General Nathaniel Greene the opportunity to reorganize the American Army.

When British General Henry Clinton learned of his men's defeat at Kings Mountain, he is reported to have called it "the first link of a chain of evils" that he feared might lead to the collapse of the British plans to quash the Patriot rebellion. He was right. American forces went on to defeat the British at Cowpens. A little more than a year after Kings Mountain, Washington accepted Cornwallis's surrender at Yorktown, Virginia.

OCS

Comment #152: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 3:05pm ET...

149: hcocdr
The only points you make are that you are a hero and are saving democracy from an unseen bogey man
in a war that was forced upon a people that don't want you there.
There you go again "Fixing the facts around the point" I misspell words in my post in order for you guys to have something to do.
Well I don't need you for anything,much less for something to do.
As far as your talking points having to be refuted, What a joke you are!

Comment #153: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:07pm ET...

I thought it had something to do with the American Revolution but wasn't sure. You have removed all doubt. Thanks. OCS? Are you a mustanger? Either or, stay healthy and keep the members of your command alive and healthy.

Comment #154: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:11pm ET...

I'm beginning to believe my sermon may have opened up a pandora's box yesterday. I enjoy the veiwpoint of the religious liberal, but this forum really should not be used as a pulpit. I'm the first to make that mistake and because of that, I take full responsibility for the sudden plethora of religious references and rhetoric. I know there are very few religious discussions that are not quickly hijacked by the conservative zealots. Although I believe the liberal religious viewpoint is a stronghold of liberalism and has become the one area where we can thoroughly trash the conservatives, I remind us all that this is supposed to be, more or less, a purely political discussion.

As for the political point that LenaDavid made, I happen to belong to a union and my pension is through that union. My company has no control over my pension. That is one of the reasons we have unions.

I have said it of capitalism elsewhere that capitalism is the most powerful form of economics possible but it is also the most inhumane of them all.

Read my posts on how Capitalism enslaves people if you're interested.
Further musings from that board:

Quote:
And for the most part, it would be the poor people's fault that they are poor, since there would be thriving industries ripe for finding a job in. EndQuote.

Have you ever wondered why we have such organizations as OSHA and labor laws? Capitalism, when freed from all constraints, can become an inhumane beast. Let me explain.
It was Jay Gould, a railroad industrialist who once said "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half". And without the protections the law provides now, this was'nt much of an exaggeration. People have been found chained to their sewing machines, living in their own excrement. Children have been found whipped and beaten, some killed and bueried in shallow graves in the back of the factory. Men have been forced to work in mines without protective equipment until their lungs simply gave out. None of these people were 'slaves'. They were working in a purely profit driven company.
Men were forced to buy goods only from the company owned store. If they did'nt, they were fired. But the goods were marked up so much, that their wages did even pay for all the basics. So most employees ended up signing their entire paycheck back to the company. Anyone who tried to leave had their debt due in full immediately.
Unregulated capitalism is responsible for a great deal of human misery and that is why we have regulations and enforcement. It's to impose some humanity upon capitalism.

It was as recently as just a few years ago that OSHA had to make a ruling that a company could not prevent it's employees from going to the bathroom on company time. Guess why, because a few companies were actually preventing their employees from going to the bathroom for hours at a time. As a truck driver, I drove for 2 hours to get to my pickup. When I got there, I needed to relieve myself. But the company would not let me use thier facilities even though it was just a few feet away. (So I used their loading bay) But the fact remains, here was a company that wanted to prevent me from using their bathroom because they did not want me using their water, paper towels, and toilet paper.

So anarchistic capitalism really benefits the company owners by removing the regulations (and thus some of the humanity) at the expence of the workers. But it can be just as bad for the company owners as well.

Of course, I know what you're going to say next, "if that's the case, then simply quit and work for someone else". But that does not work if all the companies are forced to compete against those who are willing to sacrifice humanity for profit. In that environment, all companies are faced with either sacrificing their own humanity for the sake of profit, or fail to compete against those who do. Eventually, the only companies left are the ones that chain thier workers to their equipment, feed and clothe them only the minimum possible, clean the stalls rarely, beat them into ever higher levels of production, devise ways to take their paychecks from them, and otherwise treat employees like slaves or animals.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is what we're really fighting for. No less than humanity over profiteering. Wherever there is money, there shall be profiteers. And it is, indeed, the weak, the poor, the widowed, and the downtrodden that needs our protection from the profiteer; those who would prey upon these people.
Our moral and ethical mandate is clear. The Bush administration and his supporters are clearly here to rape the weakest ones within our society and we must stop them. It's a moral obligation; a moral mandate, if you will.

I listened to one of the representatives on the floor about 8pm last night quoting a military report. It predicted this war will cost between $500 billion and $1 trillion per year until 2015.

I say we pass legislation making this war purely a not for profit enterprise. All corporate profit must be returned and all corporations banned from making a profit. All in the name of patriotism and national security. We could argue that anyone who wants to make a profit from the war effort is clearly out for profit and not supporting their country. Those who do not support the bill are not supporting our troops. let's see the neo-cons squirm their way out of that one. I'd love to hear their twisted logic trying to claim that obscene profiteering is patriotic.

Comment #155: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:12pm ET...

Speaking of history
Samuel Doak's Famous Sermon & Prayer
Sycamore Shoals Muster
September 1780 preceding the march to the Battle of Kings Mountain:

Hearing this prayer you think it would have been said right after the fire and sword was brought to our very door on September 11, 2001

"My countrymen, you are about to set out on an expedition which is full of hardships and dangers, but one in which the Almighty will attend you. "The Mother Country has her hands upon you, these American Colonies, and takes that for which our fathers planted their homes in the wilderness - OUR LIBERTY. "Your brethren across the mountains are crying like Macedonia unto your help. God forbid that you shall refuse to hear and answer their call - but the call of your brethren is not all. The enemy is marching hither to destroy your own homes. "Brave men, you are not unacquainted with battle. Your hands have already been taught to war and your fingers to fight. You have wrested these beautiful valleys of the Holston, and Watauga from the savage hand. Will you tarry now until the other enemy carries fire and sword to your very doors? No, it shall not be. Go forth then in the strength of your manhood to the aid of your brethren, the defense of your liberty and the protection of your homes. And may the God of Justice be with you and give you victory." "Let Us Pray"

"Almighty and gracious God! Thou hast been the refuge and strength of Thy people in all ages. In time of sorest need we have learned to come to Thee - our Rock and our Fortress. Thou knowest the dangers and snares that surround us on march and in battle. "Thou knowest the dangers that constantly threaten the humble, but well beloved homes which Thy servants have left behind them. "O, in Thine infinite mercy, save us from the cruel hand of the savage, and of Tyrant. Save the unprotected homes while fathers and husbands and sons are far away fighting for freedom and helping the oppressed. "Thou, who promised to protect the Sparrow in its flight, keep ceaseless watch, by day and by night, over our loved ones. The helpless woman and little children, we commit to Thy care. Thou wilt not leave them or forsake them in times of loneliness and anxiety and terror. "O, God of Battle, arise in Thy might. Avenge the slaughter of Thy people. Confound those who plot for our destruction. Crown this mighty effort with victory, and smite those who exalt themselves against liberty and justice and truth. "Help us as good soldiers to wield the SWORD OF THE LORD AND GIDEON." "Amen"

Comment #156: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 3:19pm ET...

gcm
I am being nice. It seems that you are convinced by hcr that he is what he is telling you. I think that he belongs to the ministry of propaganda.
I do realize that all is possible online but if I were a commander on the front ,in a hostile war zone, I believe I would have better things to do ,than try to persuade folks that what I am doing is good,especially people that are against war.This naturally is only my opinion.
By the way ,I freed myself of all the BS he is spewing a long time ago.

Comment #157: Ohiodem1 said on 7/20/05 @ 3:20pm ET...

Jay, your proposal takes all the fun out of being a war profiteer.

If you can't pocket a billion here, a billion there, what good is it to have a war?

Might as well send our guys and gals home if you do that.

Comment #158: Genghis Khan said on 7/20/05 @ 3:22pm ET...

#121

Stoufi:

Shall we throw "Dred Scott v. Sanderson" back to the States?

How about revisiting "Brown v. Board of Education" in favor of "Plessy v. Ferguson"?

Some things need to be defined at the Federal level. US Constitutional right to privacy is one of the primary.

Comment #159: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:22pm ET...

#152: Ron, reality check time: There are at least 50% of the population in this country that believe in some way that they want our service men and women in harms way. Witness the election of Bush in 2004. Respect him for his beliefs and his dedication to duty. Captain, I expect you to do the same for those of us who have a different view of what is going on. It is below a commissioned officer, you know "an officer and a gentleman", to write the way you do. Please show me the military didn't make a mistake giving you 'gold' for your shoulder boards.

I suppose you would rather he go AWOL and dishonor his service. He is following orders and that is what he swore to do when he enlisted and reaffirmed when he received his commission. I am sure he is better than that.

You attacked him instead of zeroing in on the fact the his meals are provide by KBR, you know, Haliburton subsidiary, Mr. Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney's benefactor.

Comment #160: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:29pm ET...

Ron,

You’d be surprised that sometimes wars are fought on a lot of places. In my spare time here I chose to do it on the most liberal congressman in the US blog. Some guys nit or draw. The relentless attacks on our President, by people like jc and his supporters have killed troops here. Our enemies use those statements to further their agenda. Can’t you see that. They don’t watch fox news here they watch Al Jazzera. Just go to their website and you will see what I mean.

Giving people both sides is whats America's all about.

Comment #161: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:34pm ET...

Re Judge Roberts: Something else to think about this tower of strict construction...AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you all for being with us, Nancy Northup, Gary Marx, Jamin Raskin, Art Eisenberg and Ralph Neas, and end up with a Washington Post final paragraph in one of their pieces today: “In the aftermath of the disputed 2000 presidential election, Roberts played a key, if quiet, role in the Florida recount. Although his name did not appear on the briefs, three sources who were personally aware of Roberts's role said he gave Republican Governor Jeb Bush critical advice on how the Florida legislature could Constitutionally name George W. Bush the winner at a time when Republicans feared that if the recount were to continue, the courts might force a different choice."

http://www.democracynow.org/print.pl?sid=05/07/20/1415238

Comment #162: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:39pm ET...

The KBR meals are worth every dime and most of the cooks here now were hired and came from the islands that were destroyed by the tsunami. Giving then a job is much better that throwing a couple of bucks in a donation basket. You know that teach them to fish thing. You’ll never hear that on CNN.

Comment #163: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:41pm ET...

Hcocdr, then you would not object of us calling for nationalizing Haliburton so we can turn those profits into more supplies for you folks. I suppose you would not object to us calling for the end of profiteering off this war in favor of patriotism?

I think it's time we make those neo-cons squirm. I call for a ban on all profiteering off this war. I call for a mandate to turn all profits into more supplies for our troops. It's the most patriotic way we can support our troops.

Comment #164: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:47pm ET...

Your right Jay,

How about you first. You can go down to the DCU sewing factory in Newport Tennessee and tell them you will work 80 hour weeks making DCU uniforms for us for free. Thanks Man

Comment #165: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 3:48pm ET...

#155, From Samuel Doak's sermon preceding the march to Kings mountain in 1780:

"Go forth then in the strength of your manhood to the aid of your brethren, the defense of your liberty and the protection of your homes. And may the God of Justice be with you and give you victory." This can be used in defense of those of us who would like to see a demise of Patriot Act II and the other issues that are being discussed in this and other threads/blogs. Thanks for the quote Captain.

Comment #166: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 3:51pm ET...

#159- Well said.
We all want you to watch your back and keep your head down hcodcr. Come back safe and sane. I'm seeing a lot of guys at the VA hospital these days who didn't.
On subject: Mr Conyers don't let the Roberts nomination side track the Dems into another abortion discussion. The republicans don't want to overturn Roe v Wade. Many righties have abortions and many left leaning folks like myself wouldn't have one if our lives depended on it. They are trying to turn this into a wedge issue. Focus on his overall record. Let the hypocrites fall before their own electorate ( most of whom don't want to be taken over by extremist either). In truth the republicans do not want to deal with the social problems surrounding this issue. Let them get caught in their own web. Stay focused.

Comment #167: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 3:55pm ET...

I'm with u guys on the domain thing. Being former law enforcement and as long as we keep checks and balances, likes those that are in the PA II, I think it will work.

Comment #168: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:00pm ET...

#164, Too late, I think the NeoCons and WalMart outsourced that contract to Communist China...

Comment #169: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:07pm ET...

For a while now it looks like stoufi has been rehashing talking points.

I think its time to bring up the democrats are holding investigative hearings on this matter.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_plan_their_own_hearings_on_outed__0720.html

This is a serious breach of security, and likewise no one is backing down on it or the downing street minutes behind it.

This time, republicans will at the end of the day have to join. Members like DeWine and Voinovich must be sick and tired of this crap, and if they want to keep their jobs, its time to step up.

National security issues are gravely serious and there need be no more argument. We must know the full damage done here and take action immediately, as on the DSM....

Rusty,

It is not surprising here that the likes of the Bush admin would corrupt Ohio further and try to bribe Senator Voinovich. They are the lowest of criminals, remember where they come from.

Likewise, members like hcor have been truly manipulated by this administration. They should relish in the fact Bases are being closed for illegal dealings and war profiteering.

They should be grateful if Halliburton corruption is stopped, and is able to provide the troops with the actual support they need.

Instead of standing around willfully participating in this corruption its time to no, COMPLETELY FACE THE FACTS.

The Weekly Standard is nothing but a bullshit propaganda outlet written by PNAC. PNAC IS USING OUR SOLDIERS IN THE US MILITARY NOW, AROUND THE WORLD ABROAD AS POLITICAL CRONIES AND PAWNS FOR THEIR CORRUPTION.

They want them to guard Halliburton bases, and suck every single bit of oil and resources from the middle east that they can get. They ENCOURAGE the troops to hate all muslims and those who even dare stand opposed to Halliburton. You are pawns for PNAC, stop drinking their horrible lies.

When you stop, that's when the illusion dissapears and this country gets back to good progress.

Doug E.

Comment #170: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 4:08pm ET...

Is it true that President Clinton oredered the launch of 15 US Tomohawk missiles, into Baghdad as retaliation for a failed assasination attempt on GHW Bush?

If so, wasn't that an illegal act of aggression?

When Mr. Conyers makes statements about "But the important lesson is that we not let the Supreme Court announcment distract us from the ongoing struggle to root out corruption and deception in the White House" does he mean simply replacing one liar with another?,(admin I am not calling any names just asking a question, so don't be a jerk).

What about getting rid of corruption in Congress?.

As long as people are willing to justify even the smallest "white lies" then nothing will change for the better.

Some good news from San Diego, just the other day two City Councilmembers were convicted, of corruption , and have resigned from office. WHoHOOO!

I must say that I wonder why Democrats are not calling atention to their own Party memebrs who are helping the Terrorists in the White House, like Diane Feinstein?

Mr. Conyers seems like he has good intentions.

I don't think that Mr. Conyers is telling us to ignore the Supremem Court Nomination nor any other important issue, I think he is just trying to tell us that even the media we think we can trust is actually controlled by the Terorists in White House. I think Mr. Conyers is telling us to keep our eyes, ears , and minds open.

We need to not overrespond to "red herrings" but we shouldn't be so focused on one issue that we don't notice what else is going on. We need options, and we need to anticipate that the Terrorists in the White House and Congress are clever enough to use the media to actually mislead us into fighting an issue that they have anticipated us fighting. They put out these weapons of mass distraction to keep our minds and hands occupied. They are up to so much eveil that they are constantly working on new schemes.

While we are stuck fighting yesterdays battle they are commititng new crimes today, and planning tomorrows terrorist attack.

Seth Cowen

Comment #171: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:09pm ET...

Were better off with these types of jobs gone anyway, educated Americans should want more for themselves. Our country has evolved beyond those manual labor dead end jobs. Why not ship them some where and let the free enterprise system work. I worked in tobacco fields when I was a youngster. I would not like to give my kids the choice to do those types of jobs. Would you? Service industry is the next step in our economic evolution. Would you have us start making Model T’s again.

Comment #172: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:12pm ET...

Re #167 Cap, say again re Patriot Act II. I don't understand your use of the word domain. I definately take exception to your statement "as long as we keep checks and balances, like those that are in the PAII, I think it will work." Please read the draft legislation here: http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/patriot2draft.html

I didn't see any "checks and balances" in it.

You say you are former Law enforcement... What happened to "Protect and Serve"? The Republican Party now controls the whole US Government... the House, the Senate, the White House, and now they are about to take total control with the Supreme Court. Where are there any 'checks and balances' in this setup?

I for one do not want to see another Court pick my President. That was in effect a coup d'etat.

Comment #173: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 4:14pm ET...

Gcm
So a reality check is what I need?
You really belive that 50% of America wants us in this war! You really believe that 50% of America voted for Bush.
Well folks here goes the Golden Gate Again!
This time for 50 cents.
My side thinks and is working on proving that the last election was rigged.
Bush does not belong where he is .
As far as respect for his beliefs goes , he definitely thinks different than I do.
Quit taking up for others,hcr has a big mouth all by himself.
Oh and PS I didn't run or join the air Nat. guard either.
I did 4 tours in NAM and I was hoping that that was the last time My country had to do that.
I

Comment #174: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:22pm ET...

Ron,

This is sadly a very important point. Remember, the likes of Seth would have you falsely believe there is too much corruption.

It is very easy to see through the smokescreen. The corruption is rooted in Ohio's DLC, the DLC itself and the neocon radical right of the republican party.

It needs to be completely dismantled because it controls the government, and the majority of america is not in control. Only the radical minority who has mobilized in anger.

We must be absolutely dilligent, in holding the full hearings and then bringing about prosecutions. Go after the root core of this cancer, and the rest will fall away with the scales.

That's how you do it: We are already fighting for voting rights (See Cynthia McKinney and Velvet Revolution) Iraq DSM War/Traitorgate, and multiple other issues at one time.

We can do this with no problem by simply staying focused permanently on the target.

Doug E.

Comment #175: Lemon said on 7/20/05 @ 4:26pm ET...

"Our work increased tremendously as a result of these developments, and we have been very active in keeping down the levels of pollution"

Atmos 07.20.05

As we wait out time to finally appear openly on Earth, we reflect on the remarkable challenge you have undertaken through the whole cycle of duality. We are also somewhat in awe of your determination to see these last few days out, and imprint your version of the end-times upon it. Those who are enlightened are holding fast to manifest it in such a way that success is achieved through peaceful means. This enables us to participate much more quickly, and we have already started to place restraints upon the activity of the dark.

In fact, we have directed events in such a way that you would not be totally at the mercy of the dark. We have placed limitations on them as far as the effect of their activities. We have been particularly concerned with the loss of life, and have prevented many major catastrophes. We have otherwise had to allow you to work out your own way through the last few years, but we still nevertheless keep a watchful eye on events. It will not be until you learn the truth of our work as your Guardians that you will understand the full extent of our help.

In the past times we have been more restricted and very careful not to overplay or hand. Humans have an inclination to look to the skies for their Salvation, and this is something you have carried within your sub-consciousness from eons of time ago. You have always felt a connection with the visitors from the skies that are your Gods of old. This is why we have had to avoid more open contact until the right time. We have no desire to distract you from the paths you have chosen. However, the time fast approaches when we can at last safely come to you and then you will know who we are.

Of necessity, one of the secrets that have had to be withheld from you is your close connection to us. If you had already known, you would not have concentrated on the tasks in hand. You have to remember that you chose a planet of free choice, and it is not for others to influence or intervene in your affairs. This is how it has remained for thousands of years, and the only exceptions are where we are authorized by higher powers to help you by working behind the scenes. Often our work would have been beyond your comprehension, as we have helped Mother Earth through periods of uncertainty when your very existence was under threat.

For example, we held the Earth ready when it’s magnetic field weakened and there was danger of an axis tilt. We have prevented or lessened the effect of natural catastrophes largely due to movement of the tectonic plates. This is not viewed as interference; as such actions are to allow you to complete your cycle in the manner intended. Our presence has of necessity been more open for the last 60 years, as we had to monitor your testing and use of the atomic bomb, and ensure that it was not used for the wholesale destruction of Earth. Our work increased tremendously as a result of these developments, and we have been very active in keeping down the levels of pollution.

It has been our intervention at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant that has prevented a massive explosion. Even now we are in charge of safety measures to ensure that an explosion still does not take place. Keeping down the affects of radiation has been a major concern for us, as you do not yet understand its full potential danger. Radiation even at low levels causes mutations and illnesses. You presently have evidence of this in recent time, from your wars in the Middle East and the use of new weaponry. The human body is a wonderful organism, but not designed to resist high levels of radiation. As you may know, even the levels from your Sun are harmful if you consider the aging process of your body cells.

You are certainly having to learn about life the hard way, and that is what free choice is about. You may not always have understood the ramifications of what you have been doing, but you have been driven by the desire for the domination of others. You have also carried out developments where profit rather than safety has been your objective. However, all of this is part of your experiences that you will take with you as you return to full consciousness. You may wonder if things could have been different, and of course they could but for your direction that took you into a materialistic age that lacked spiritual guidance. You progressed far too quickly without consideration to the needs of the whole.

The realization of your Oneness is now beginning to surface, and a quickening movement to bring unity and peace to all is gathering pace. You understand that you cannot exist as individuals without any responsibility for your fellow humans. You are all in this together, and what you do to one, you do to yourself. Color, creed and politics are divisive ways created by Man that have led to much pain and sorrow. At last many of you see how it really is and serious attempts are being made overcome prejudice that causes separation.

Dear ones, I am Atmos come again from the Galactic Federation. I wish you to know that we are ready to help you in your tasks, so do not lose heart. There is much to do, but together we shall make short work of it. We come with great respect for your achievements, as in spite of the challenge you have faced, you have much to be proud of and we see the new shining through the dark. You are beautiful Beings beginning to emerge from the chrysalis that has hidden your true self for so long. We send our love and blessings to you all – until we meet again.

Thank you Atmos

Mike Quinsey

Comment #176: ljm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:27pm ET...

Well, I hope the Dems have planned the supreme court battle better than BushCo did the Iraq War. I hope the Dems in the senate have an exit strategy for us on radical rightwing activist judges. Meanwhile, congress can focus on the DSM and Rove Rage. We should be able to do multiple things at once. Thanks for keeping your eye on the ball, Mr. Conyers.

Comment #177: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:29pm ET...

Why aren't the media getting memos about this?

Doug you wrote:

“The Weekly Standard is nothing but a bullshit propaganda outlet written by PNAC. PNAC IS USING OUR SOLDIERS IN THE US MILITARY NOW, AROUND THE WORLD ABROAD AS POLITICAL CRONIES AND PAWNS FOR THEIR CORRUPTION.”

I wrote:

“Just days later, on January 1, 1999, the Paris-based, pan-Arab magazine Al-Watan Al-Arabi expanded on the details of the new terrorist alliance. High-level representatives from both organizations had been meeting for months.”

Now let me get this straight, because these guys may be better then you think, if while Bush was Governor of Texas, they had the foresight to plant in a Frog Paper, in 1999, a link between OBL and Saddam. Are they “written by PNAC”? You can check the story at their website. To be used to start a war he had been planning.

Comment #178: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 4:30pm ET...

There are so many posts on this blog that are based completely on falsehoods, with a little fact and comonm sense dispersed throughout, but just like with the Pravda media, anyone who really pays attention can see the truth, and know that a bunch of propaganda is not worth getting all worked up over and distracted by. That is what I think anyways. Action instead of reaction.

Seth Cowen

Comment #179: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:33pm ET...

Ron, apparently you do not read my posts. You are now attacking me who has been trying to reason with van, stoufi, NO DUmmie and hcocdr.

Have you seen NO DUmmie around lately? Everytime I get online here I ask him if he is a veteran, what era, he disappears. I too am a Vietnam vet, my Service Medal has two stars on it. What has that got to do with trying to make these people see the light. You attack these people and it will only make them more resolute in their beliefs.

Again, read what I said, the President was elected in 2004, notwithstanding the voter fraud that is trying to be brought to light, it would appear that the majority of the people voted for the criminal/traitor.

Comment #180: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 4:38pm ET...

If America is a Representative Republic, why is America spending trilions of dollars to spread Democracy around the world, when apparently the majority of Americans don't like Democrats?

Seth Cowen

Comment #181: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:38pm ET...

#177. If you want people to go to a website and read something, have the courtesy to include the link.

Comment #182: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:39pm ET...

"Governor of Texas, they had the foresight to plant in a Frog Paper, in 1999, a link between OBL and Saddam. Are they “written by PNAC”?"

hco,

This is total propaganda. Do you know who AEI is? Its a think-tank arm for PNAC, it is PNAC. That is why the newspaper "reported" this alleged affair.

Please, go and willingly read what PNAC actually is.

http://newamericancentury.org/

Yes do these folks look like they are not beyond planting fake news stories? PLEASE!!! They have been involved in pushing, exactly what you have there for over 10 years!!!

Timeline for PNAC project
http://myeasybase.com/conyers/

NO connection between 9/11 attacks and Saddom plus the kurds, totally needless and baseless garbage. Al-Quaeda is now triple a threat because of a needless slaughter of muslims, their allies, and invasions in the middle east.

Doug E.

Comment #183: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:40pm ET...

“That's how you do it: We are already fighting for voting rights (See Cynthia McKinney and Velvet Revolution) Iraq DSM War/Traitorgate, and multiple other issues at one time.”

Doug wasn't the Velvet Revolution written by the Eddie Murphy Saturday Night Live guy Velvet Jones? By Cynthia McKinney when she was driving the little car around that the astronauts left when they went to Mars.

Comment #184: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:45pm ET...

hcocdr, I can't believe you said that. What about the millions of Americans who did not get a college education? You seem to have written them off entirely. Service jobs are mostly dead end jobs. They pay little and give no benefits at all. This "service economy" is why there are so many children without health care in this country. I'm one of the lucky few with a decent mfg job with good health care, optical, and dental. Millions of workers are dying to get those kinds of benefits. But because they work in the "service industry" it's simply not available or when it is, it costs more than they net.

Another thing, hcocdr, there is a big difference between non profit and charity. I was not talking about charity, I was talking about non profit. Of course, you already knew that when you replied, didn't you.

Doug, Seth is talking about more than just Ohio, or the GOP or the Bush Administration. He's talking about corrupton everywhere. Corruption at the BIA, and the State Department and the Pork Barrels, and the NSA, and NASA, and the DEA and the FDA and corporations and....

Comment #185: Genghis Khan said on 7/20/05 @ 4:45pm ET...

I'm going to reiterate my belief that the person posting as "hcocdr" has never been out of the contiguous 48.

He posts rehashed rnc.org talking points without. When pushed he brings just enough military babble to show that either he or a close relative spent some time (presumably in the unit in which he claims membership).

But his rhetoric of "anyone who disagrees with Bush supports the terrorists" is the same simplistic, moronic, garbage I see posted on numerous message boards by people who likewise claim current military service (and a few who have been caught, at different times, claiming service in multiple theaters ranging from Vietnam all the way to the current conflict).

I also get a chuckle out of his economic theory ("hey, let's just send all the 'lower' jobs overseas because we're all gonna get edumucated..") and his blind allegiance to the PA.

One more word: Bush43 was not a party to the PNAC. His brother is. His VP is. The vast majority of his Cabinet is. His choice for UN Ambassador is. Dubya was set up as an affable clown to front for an organization that has been plotting this power grab for decades. Go step through the PNAC website (http://newamericancentury.org/lettersstatements.htm) for some insight into how this excursion into Iraq was planned since the 90s.

Comment #186: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 4:46pm ET...

#180 Seth, Here's a question for you: How can America spread Democracy around the world when there is an intense dedicated effort to subvert it here in America, you know the Patriot Act?

Sorry another question: Who the hell told America it was our God given right to spead that democracy?

Comment #187: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 4:47pm ET...

160: hcocdr
I will not put that shoe on pal.
People over there are dying because that man you are supporting put you there ,in your case went there voluntarily, NOT because I want you out of there.

Comment #188: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:48pm ET...

No, you obviously haven't heard of the vote fraud activist network.

http://www.velvetrevolution.us

Also lets not kid ourselves Russ, the votes were stolen. That is why Diebold is full of such corporate shills and felons.

They steal the vote counting, and cover it up with Thomas Noe and other Board of Elections workers.

But that is all getting uncovered by Cynthia McKinney and company now, this is the true reason "democrats" have lost touch with their base. They never really lost but you can't give that ammo to the far right, as they have a constant meme now that proves democrats are for gays, remember that?

And they are lying hypocrites, but that shouldn't make any difference in this little squaret. The fact is we have traitors in the white house, deal with PNAC once and for all.

Fight different wars at the same time, that includes the Tom DeLay scandals. Just play it by zeroing in on the main culprit, Dick Cheney's house of thugs and illegal contract writers....

Doug E.

Comment #189: Dave said on 7/20/05 @ 4:50pm ET...

I must say…This is my first time to the Blog. I have heard a great deal about it, but have been slow in making my way over here.

I think this is an excellent outlet for debate on the topics facing Washington.

Yes, from time to time some of you may snoop to near name calling.

I must say, everyone here seems rather intelligent in their takes on the issues that I’ve read thus far. I do plan on spending hours pouring over the entirety of this site.

Keep up the good fight Senator Conyers. You receive my praise.

Oh, and Sandra?

I must say, you are enchantingly intellectual.

Oh, and Rusty…wow, keep up the good work. You’re like the blog pitbull. It’s good to see someone on here with such sharp teeth.

Comment #190: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:52pm ET...

GK I've been posting here for a while, go ahead ask away Here is a couple of sites linked to my unit. check out the hoofbeats at www.278acr.com. or some other things posted at http://iraq.billhobbs.com/

I am where i said i am and i am anything but a lier.

Comment #191: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/20/05 @ 4:53pm ET...

Welcome to the JC blog Dave, it's good to meet you.

And with that, I'll take my leave and chase my domestic terr, ahem, children around the house.

Comment #192: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 4:58pm ET...

Sandra,

Interesting point and I agree its worth mentioning.

Remember to win the war, sometimes you must simply become a dog and bit the corruptions balls without ever letting go.

We have Randy Duke Cunningham resigning in California, Arnold possibly going to jail and Governor Taft already on his way because we bit their balls in mass riots and never let go.

Sometimes, you just have to repeat the meme until it sticks. That's the only way to root out corruption. And if we stay in complete focus on that ideal, sandra, patriot, and others I believe we will get all the criminals.

That's how they get taken down, the non-stop fighting dirty-doghouse music of the truth.

Doug E.

Comment #193: dawn said on 7/20/05 @ 5:02pm ET...

Welcome, Dave. You've pointed out two of the best: Rusty & Sandra. Great comments from both and others too. Humor gets thrown-in too from time to time.

For those who are interested in the separation of church and state, I heard a great quote a while ago that nets it out:

Our forefathers cared about two things regarding religion and our government:
(1) no coersion; and
(2) not a nickel

Comment #194: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:06pm ET...

Jay,

You have bought in to the old dem ploy woe is me. Then they have you right where they want you, dependent on them. “I am doing all I can do, I can’t do no more.” “Mean old businesses are holding me back they won’t pay me enough to afford benefits.” Did they ever think to do what our parents did? Find a new job, go on strike, start your own business, work 2 jobs, go back to school, join the military, commit and go to jail. I hear it was very nice there now. Name for me anyone in your lifetime in the US that has starved to death. It’s not that bad out there, people start and succeed and start and fail at different things every day. In our country you are your only limitation.

Comment #195: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:09pm ET...

hcocdr or anyone... if someone says, "I'll be directing a black helicopter over you... ", what does that mean? Is that a threat? A joke? A secret code?

Thanks.

Comment #196: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 5:09pm ET...

174: Doug Eldritch
Doug
You are right on target with your posts.
I am not the diplomatic type.
I would rather grab you by the seat of the pants and pitch you out ,instead of trying to reason with a brick.
The time for friendly discourse is almost over with.
We need to show our colors and prove we mean business.
Sorrowfully, those who consider us the bad guys , are the bad guys.
They snuck up on us ,and took advantage of our willingness to discuss problems,and be reasonable .
All the wile they were fixing our voting system and buying off the MSM,taking over our America.
I realize that this is the simple version ,but Long speeches waste more time.
I will do what I can To help Rep Conyers rid our country of this despicable regime, in my own way.
Thanks for being where you are and who you are!

Comment #197: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 5:16pm ET...

Yes and for that matter, lets force Denny White to resign in Ohio for being a corrupt coverup artist.

Let's also kick Kenneth Blackwell to the curb for his corruption, and see him go down in flames and serve jailtime.

Not one crook deserves our sympathy, not one perverter of our laws, including corrupt democrats like former Chairman Bill Anthony.

By the way, where is the BIG TIME MEME attacking Ken Mehlman? Someone like Howard Dean should get a bunch of staffers to attack Mehlman publically, that pug is the worse partisan hack stooge for Karl Rove the world has ever seen!!!

The media smells blood, so does Kerry. Let's rip the insides out and leave NO stone unturned this time!!

Mehlman is a lying stooge who can't even get black americans to believe him, he should be degraded, punted around and humiliated by Howard Dean and company.

Destroy the opponent's chairman while kicking the ass of everything else, that will mean the right's talking point strategy to protect other corrupt DLC democrats will fade away into oblivion.

Yes it is that time again: Time to get all the way in front of downing street!!!!

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/editorial/12174008.htm

Doug E.

Comment #198: Lemon said on 7/20/05 @ 5:17pm ET...

Communication with Capt. Helena of the Capricorn. 20 July 2005

Lavar: Welcoming Helena.

Helena: Good Morning, There is much consternation among the Illuminati this morning if we can believe the messages from our telepathic friends. Are you aware of what is going on?

Lavar: I have some inputs from sources that tell me that the White Knights are in control and that although there have been some skirmishes and loss of life that the funds distribution is proceeding.

Helena: That is good. It is necessary for the funds to be distributed and the NESARA program to be announced before we can be sure of the peaceful events that are required for our first landings among you and/or our fly overs to be seen, photographed and heard. We are poised and ready for this great event. It will be an historic event in your country.
New topic: We are poised and ready. We have sent and/or assigned some of our people to be working with those who are in charge of the NESARA program and its activities. In addition, we have provided a more secure help and protection for you and your staff. We shall all welcome the day when we land, come and go, and be among you. We are most pleased with what can be accomplished when many good people will be working more closely with us in our task to help clean up Mother Earth's atmosphere and waters. You and your efforts are important. Again we highly commend those others who have helped for their excellent service to many in your world. Their efforts will save us much time in getting our message out to more people and finding those who will assist us.
We are only one of a number of starships that are assigned to various parts of your world. There are those who read what is posted and desire to be in contact with other ships assigned to their areas. There are many telepaths and it is important that you all make use of those with telepathic ability to be in contact with and to work effectively with other motherships in other areas. As soon as you find out which mothership is assigned to your regions, then post that information on this website so that more people will become aware of who is responsible for their part of the world. We will try to help those who ask us for our help to identify the other motherships. That is my message today. Do you have any questions?

Lavar: Thank you dear Helena. We shall rejoice on your landings and flyovers. And thanks for the protection. Do you foresee any further efforts that can thwart the final announcement of the NESARA program that is scheduled for this week.

Helena: We believe that our forces are sufficiently in support of the NESARA leaders that the announcement will be properly made this week. We cannot be sure of what the Illuminati will try to do, however, we have many additional forces assigned, by permission of the Galactic Federation, to intercede on your behalf.

Lavar: Thank you dear Helena. We are blessed at your presence and your help. We send our blessings to you and your crew.

Comment #199: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:17pm ET...

#195
(scary music)

Comment #200: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 5:20pm ET...

195: Patriot
I would consider it a threat.
Most likely made by a malcontent patriot act 1&2 loving informant (SQUEELER)
If you don't do what I want ,I'm going to tell on you.
Remember kindergarten?

Comment #201: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 5:21pm ET...

I do not want to address anyone directly on this blog anymore except for Mr. Conyers.

I try to address my questions and statements to the entire blog.

The following from a previous post looks more like a personal attack, than, a legitimate question. It also looks more like a statement than a question. The author already knows their answer. Some people just seem intent on argueing and do not want solutions to problems because then there will seemingly be nothing to argue about. Some people seem intent on argueing with people that aggree with them even, just for the sake of trying to exercise theri ego.

>>>>>180 Seth, Here's a question for you: How can America spread Democracy around the world when there is an intense dedicated effort to subvert it here in America, you know the Patriot Act?
American government has been attacking our representative republic since long before the USA PATRIOT act.

Sorry another question: Who the hell told America it was our God given right to spead that democracy?<<<<< Our leaders have bene teling us this for decades (Democrat and Republican)

So can anyone answer any of the questions I have asked?

Seth Cowen

Comment #202: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:24pm ET...

Here's a great start. You have to give the President a little credit for this one. Just like here in Iraq, former baath party members are starting the help with the new government.

Lebanon's forms new government; US refuses contact with Hizbullah minister
Lebanon-USA, Politics, 7/20/2005

Lebanon's Prime Minister, Foaud Sanyoura, has formed a new government that was agreed to by the president.

Washington has welcomed the new Lebanese government formed by Foaud Sanyoura, and the US Department Of State expressed its hope that his government will start reforms it vowed, and to implement UN security council resolution 1559 which demands dismantling the weapons of Hizbullah party.

The spokesman for the US Department Of State, Adam Early, said that Washington is looking forward to work with the new government, but he indicated that the American administration will not make contacts with Hizbullah members in the government, in remarks to the participation of the party in a Lebanese government for the first time after the ministry of energy was given to member of the Lebanese parliament for Hizbullah, Muhammad Fannish.

Early explained that the presence of effective members in what he called a terrorist organization inside the Lebanese government makes making contacts with those persons a mater forbidden by US law, as he claimed.

On Tuesday evening, the Lebanese prime minister Fouad Sanyoura officially announced the formation of his government which is composed of 24 ministers, after winning the consent of the President of the republic Emil Lahoud.

Among the main announced ministerial bags were the foreign ministry for the Shiite Fawzi Salloukh, the finance ministry for the Maronite Jihad Az'our, defense for Elias al-Murr, Information for Ghazi al-Aeidi and communications for Marwan Hamadeh.

He described the new government as integrated and harmonized expressing his happiness to have in it the first minister from Hizbullah, considering that it is the natural right of Hizbullah to have representatives included in the government.

The new Lebanese government alienated the supporters of the Christian leader Michael Aoun who leads a bloc in the parliament composed of 21 parliamentarian out of 128 seats.

The new government is considered the first government after the elections which were held in May and June this year with most of its seats were won by al-Mustaqbal ( future) trend led by Saad al-Hariri, son of the late Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri who was assassinated on February 14. This is also the first Lebanese government since the withdrawal of the Syrian forces from the Lebanese territories by the end of April this year.

Comment #203: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:29pm ET...

nite all I'll sleep on that one your welcome.

Comment #204: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 5:30pm ET...

I started to read post 202 but before I could finish, I rememered something.

Is it just me or did anyone else think that when Sryia was pulling out of Lebanon and Lebanon was getting ready to elect Hezbulah to power, that that would mean finally we have a terrorist country to attack. WE can actually attack the soverign nation of Lebanon because they have Hezbulah for a government and Hezbulah is an enemy of the United States of America.

Is there really a UN resolution about Lebanon? What do you bet they won't be allowed to meet the requirements of said UN resolution?

At least now we can finally declare war on a country instead of a terror network right?

Seth Cowen

Comment #205: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 5:32pm ET...

#201 Seth, my questions to you were not a personal attack. My apologies if you viewed it as such. I wanted you to think about those things. Regarding the second question, no not decades, try 2 centuries. Suggested reading for you. "A Peoples History of the United States" and "Voices of the Peoples History of the United States" both by Howard Zinn.

Comment #206: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 5:32pm ET...

I believe mr . Cowen wants his cake, plus.
I understand his reasoning ,I come partially from the same direction.
The problem is like anarchy or zen ,it is . The problem with that,is there are too many beings that do not agree with those systems,ergo they can't work. The major problem for both is education,Per se ,education in either system can't work because they incorporate reasoning. Seeing as how both systems are ,already, they cannot be changed. Huston We have a problem!
Seth I understand you , but the world ain't ready (<:

Comment #207: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:33pm ET...

hcocdr please be serious for a moment. This is right up your alley, so please explain to me what weapona a black helicopter carries.

Ron, thanks, yes, it was included in some posts which were full of hate from a threatening person... nam vet.

Comment #208: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 5:35pm ET...

Thank you for the book reccomendations. I will try to look into them.

I would alos reccomend a book I have read "The Political Though of The American Revolution" it is opart of "Seedtime of the Republic".

The book really gives a historical, documented insight into how our country was formed. It did in fact educate me.

Seth Cowen

Comment #209: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:36pm ET...

#207
That is a throw back to the time when Sen McCarthy was looking for the Commies. It was reported that they used black choppers to spy on folks.

Comment #210: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:38pm ET...

choppers were new then and scared people

Comment #211: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:41pm ET...

hcocdr, thanks very much. that makes me feel a bit better because it included the exact location.

Comment #212: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 5:46pm ET...

#211: Patriot
Is someone threatening you?

Comment #213: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:46pm ET...

this guy has been blogging some real hate and violence. then to say he'll be directing a black helicopter over our location is a bit on the scary side. It's on a blog about the party here Saturday, so he's got the address, it's posted.

Comment #214: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 5:49pm ET...

Patriot
My advice is report him to the cops.
Let them deal with that nutcase.!

Comment #215: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 5:50pm ET...

How is this, maybe this is better?

Blah, Yada Yada, Blah Blah.

Seth Cowen

Comment #216: hcocdr said on 7/20/05 @ 5:51pm ET...

" I did not mean to start a fight at your black panther party"

-Forrest Gump

nite all

Comment #217: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 5:52pm ET...

#213 Patriot, "The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself." FDR, 1932. This is how the NeoCons have gotten to where they are. A classics Nazi ploy. They can't be that stupid. The world including America, is watching.

Comment #218: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:53pm ET...

he said, "I hope you and John Conyers get along well - I'll be directing the black helicopters over Andel." Andel is the location of the party Saturday night.

Comment #219: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 5:54pm ET...

hco,

So much for that one. Ahmad Chalabi who is a worse dictator than Saddom Hussein has dismissed all the Baathist party members from the trial completely.

". Chalabi's actions have caused alarm among senior American officials here, including those at the Regime Crimes Liaison Office, which plays a crucial behind-the-scenes role in guiding the tribunal's work. American officials have carried their concerns directly to Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, who has intervened in an attempt, so far unavailing, to curb Mr. Chalabi's assault on the tribunal, Iraqi officials say.

One Iraqi official, insisting that he not be identified because of the risk to his own position at the tribunal, said an American official had warned the Jaafari government that the United States, which holds Mr. Hussein and more than 80 of his top associates in military prisons, that if the wrangling continued, it would "take them to The Hague," a reference to an international tribunal there.

American Embassy officials would not comment on this or other aspects of the dispute. But United States Justice Department lawyers who have led the work of the Regime Crimes Office, which has spent more than $35 million helping tribunal investigations and building a special courthouse, have made no secret in recent months of their exasperation with Iraqi politicians' attempts to interfere with the tribunal's work"
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/international/middleeast/20tribunal.html?

He's getting prepared for a corporatist ARAMCO Iraq, and he doesn't care at all if Saddom or his "fall boys" receive justice...

Of course, this matter isn't being decided by the Hague really....Which it should, on ALL of them.

Surprise..

Doug E.

Comment #220: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 5:54pm ET...

Or how is this?

Bunch of repeats of the same old thing.

Bunch of untruths.

A whole lot of facts jumbled up into a mess of meaninglesness.

Blah blah, Blah.

Oh no you said soething I don't like, oh no you sacre me, oh no nothing you say can be true because you are not in my political party.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Yada Yada

Now will I too get the praised as an almighty blogger in search of the truth?

Seth Cowen

Comment #221: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 5:56pm ET...

gcm I'm not in America. I'm in the Czech Republic.

Comment #222: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 5:58pm ET...

#221 Patriot, home of my Grandmother, God rest her soul.

Comment #223: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:03pm ET...

I knew aguy from Czechoslovakia. He is dead now I am sure. His name was Aldrich Oldrich. When I was a young boy he told me that he was Hitler's secretary in Czech. He said he also helped design the Tomohawk missile. My parents used to tell me he was a wack job, but I have my doubts about that.

Seth Cowen

Comment #224: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 6:09pm ET...

Just had a comforting thought... we'll be a kilometer, if that, from the US Embassy, in embassy neighborhood so I don't think there will be any helicopters flying around here. Still, I'm a bit nervous. I spent some time on conservativeundergroung.com and that's a scary place... so much hate and violence and slaughter. Just really bothers me that thse folks claim to be Americans and even Christians.

Comment #225: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 6:14pm ET...

#222 gcm indeed.

Comment #226: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:19pm ET...

Patriot, not to rain on you, but where do you think that "black Helo" would possibly come from but the US Embassy? You can bet you will be on candid camera. Like I tell hcocdr, watch your six. The neo-cons are truly scary people. Most if not all have never been in the military but they have no problem sending someone elses children to fight an unprovoked pre-emptive war. Didn't Adolf do that too?

Comment #227: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:19pm ET...

If Jesus were on Earth today he would say something like "I just don't get you people, and you don't get me. Me and Mohamed were talking , and we can't figure out why you Misnamed Christians are saying God is Great and killing people in God's name, especailly when I told you I don't like idolotry, so why do you call yourselves Christians?

And you Muslims are the same, don't you know that Ala U Ackbar means God is Great, and that you are killing your bretheren who share your same God. Don't you know that Mohamed was trying to increase freedom and equality for human kind , but just like in the Ristian lack of Faith the men of superior strength have misinterpreted my wisdom just as the unMuslim men of physical strength have misinterpreted Mohameds teachings to conclude that they are some how entitled to that which others are not.

God does not want you killing eachother in God's name"

Seth Cowen.

Comment #228: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:21pm ET...

#225 I would think you are in the city she was born. Prague back in the late 19th century. Grandfather was from Bratislava, Slovak Republic. Back in those days it was Czechoslovakia.

Comment #229: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:23pm ET...

Did't Hitler at least serve his country honorably during World War One?

In someways Hitler was a better man than GW.

Seth Cowen

Comment #230: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 6:28pm ET...

Yes, in Prague. Going to bed now. sleep well all.

Comment #231: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:30pm ET...

Posting of GW, what do you all know about Walker?

I think it was George Herbert Walker. PRecott Bush married into the Walker Family.

Maybe there is smoe valuable information in that connection?

I just know a little about the name is all.

And can you believe that anyone who would call themselves an American approves of the Bush administrations dealings with the known Terrorist Dictator Mohamar Kaddaffi?

Seth Cowen

Comment #232: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:33pm ET...

Patriot, peace, then victory, then maybe lasting peace. The Cold War was so much better than this. Back then we had MAD, Mutally Assured Destruction.

Now we have suitcase nukes, fanatics crazy enough to deliver them and a US government that only thinks of money and screwing the people they represent.

Comment #233: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 6:33pm ET...

Actually Seth ,They Both are the same. Megalomaniacs
Both not worthy of serving humanity.

Comment #234: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:38pm ET...

#231 Seth, suggest you read "House of Bush, House of Saud" by Craig Unger. All your questions about George Walker, Prescott Bush, GHWB and of course that paragon of business acumen, George Walker Bush.

If you want to read a scary book, read "Chain of Command" by Seymour Hersch

Comment #235: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:41pm ET...

But Hitler did serve in the military and fight in a war,earn an Iron Cross right?

Hitler was not an abohration of the German people was he?

Pograms were nothing new to the German people were they?

Seth Cowen

Comment #236: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:41pm ET...

Ron, how dare you say that about former Senator Prescott Bush. Just kidding. :-)

Comment #237: Patriot said on 7/20/05 @ 6:42pm ET...

In all fairness, that comment wasn't directed at me, but rather at one of the attendees. But I figure, if the party is going to get nuked, I'd probably get my hair messed up a little and I wouldn't like that one bit.

Good night all.

Comment #238: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:42pm ET...

Is Bill Clinto worthy of serving humanity?

I think not.

Seth Cowen

Comment #239: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:44pm ET...

My #234. I didn't finish my statement...to wit: All your questions about George Walker, Prescott Bush, GHWB and of course that paragon of business acumen, George Walker Bush will be answered.

Comment #240: Jonathan Gold said on 7/20/05 @ 6:48pm ET...

You Gotta See This

Comment #241: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:48pm ET...

Yeah!

Nukes should be the new Colt. The Great Equalizer" With power comes responsibility.

MAD is a good detterent for war. Let's dismantle our military completely and just maintain and increase our nuclear arsenal. Mess with US and we'll blow up the whole World. Take that suicide bombers.

Seth Cowen

Comment #242: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 6:49pm ET...

Hey, I have gotten some really violent, angry e-mail since I started visiting this site also. I assumed it was Hank and his kind because they can't get on the blog with that nasty stuff anymore. I am surprised these people get so upset that decent, sober, hardworking, church going folks like myself may have an opinion they don't agree with. They seem to think George Bush = God. So far I haven't been threatened with violence but Patriot has me
wondering. I sure don't want a visit from the skin heads or KKK, or some nut like that women's clinic bomber. Patriot if you think they are coming after you report it to some authority. There are people out there who can't tolerate other peoples opinions.

Comment #243: Seth Cowen said on 7/20/05 @ 6:50pm ET...

HOBHOS has cought my attention several times.

Seth Cowen

Comment #244: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:51pm ET...

That button should read, "I'm a schmuck, not a target".

Both of them need a couple of years in the penetentiary where they can be some convicts love muffin.

Comment #245: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 6:52pm ET...

Actually Seth,very few of those in power deserve the positions they hold.Most of them need to be replaced with people such as yourself,that actually think about what they are doing ,and the consequences of their actions.

Comment #246: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 6:58pm ET...

Seth, HOBHOS?

Comment #247: Jonathan Gold said on 7/20/05 @ 6:59pm ET...

Can you believe that's a real picture with a real pin? That's f-ing unreal.

Comment #248: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 6:59pm ET...

#240: Jonathan Gold
The button really reads "I suck,so does he"
SORRY(<:

Comment #249: Doug Eldritch said on 7/20/05 @ 7:00pm ET...

Seth..,

You continue to bring up Clinton, I find that interesting. Clinton was an appeaser to the religious right for many years...

And Prescott Bush was the original thinker of this whole cabal of PNAC, and the original exploiter. His deputy chief was Paul Wolfowitz.

All need to remember where they come from, their roots, their intolerance and also what those hate threats are about. Turn their words against them, and take no prisoners just like Rusty and Ron have been talking about.

And make sure this type of news is front page news:
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-20T125259Z_01_SCH046301_RTRUKOC_0_SECURITY-BRITAIN-MAYOR.xml

"LONDON (Reuters) - Western foreign policy has fuelled the Islamist radicalism behind the bomb attacks which killed more than 50 people in London, the capital's mayor Ken Livingstone said on Wednesday.

Livingstone, who earned the nickname "Red Ken" for his left-wing views, won widespread praise for a defiant response which helped unite London after the bombings. But he has revived his reputation for courting controversy in recent days."

Left or center or not, it had to be said. This bullshit has done absolutely nothing to protect america. And it will continue to endanger everyone even further, and at the expense and risk of your own walk.

Do not compromise, do not give the lying fascists one inch. All they can do is spread the bullshit they are the majority, when they are nothing but a minority who is a bully "scared" of losing their power of ignorance.

Shove it back in their faces, and those corporate shills and shove it long and hard. We have MADE Islam and the world hate us profoundly, because of this ignorance.

We have failed to account for the real threats and destroyed our own makeup in the process, because of it. No more questions, let the DSM hearings show full forth what these deceptions have done to all, and let the hammer of justice fall.

Doug E.

Comment #250: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 7:04pm ET...

#242 Jo, are they threatening you? If they are notify your local PD. I would say to notify the FBI but given the current leader of the Justice Department I don't believe they would do anything. Save the emails and then forward them to your PD.

Comment #251: Jonathan Gold said on 7/20/05 @ 7:07pm ET...

The thing about me... send me all the violent, threatening emails you want... I'm willing to die for my cause... how about you?

Comment #252: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 7:10pm ET...

#249 Doug, you know what this is all about, when the Cold War ended, the military industrial complex and those who made their money on confict no longer had an enemy to hoodwink everyone into allowing the Defense Department to take a large portion of the budget. Now we have an invisible enemy and a war against a noun (terrorism). Terrorism is a strategy not a country.

Just like the war on drugs. It is a never ending endeavor and they will bleed this country dry along with killing off our youth.

Comment #253: Ron said on 7/20/05 @ 7:11pm ET...

Let Freedom Ring. Don't let ANYONE tell you what you are doing isn't right!
Scare me Ha HA Ha I own a gun shop in a small southern town !Jonathan
don't get me wrong bro, I love you man!

Comment #254: sheila said on 7/20/05 @ 7:30pm ET...

anyone can be in danger that speaks up. tell all who will hear is the only safety

Comment #255: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 7:47pm ET...

Just mean stuff . No physical threats. Maybe I have given too many clues as to the state I live in and the work I do and the family I have. Until I hear more about what is going on with patriot, I am going to just lurk awhile.

Comment #256: Jonathan Gold said on 7/20/05 @ 8:14pm ET...

What Is AIPAC?

Comment #257: sheila said on 7/20/05 @ 8:26pm ET...

I am having a party the 23rd. I will be proud to go down with this bunch of Americans. Would it not look bad if we are attacked. I live in the mountains and have rednecks all around, the best in the world. Don't look back, you are in the right

Comment #258: Jo said on 7/20/05 @ 8:29pm ET...

Mostly concerned about the safety of the kids

Comment #259: WLS said on 7/20/05 @ 8:38pm ET...

Re: Judge Roberts. I would hope that all Democratic Senators when ask by the press about this man would reply:
"It's to early to say. We don't want to pre-judge an inquiry that hasn't even began. We think that the matter concerning the lies of Karl Rove are more important to resolve right now."

We can't be distracted!

Comment #260: Genghis Khan said on 7/20/05 @ 9:10pm ET...

hco:

I was here when you first posted. Nothing you've posted has amused me in the remote. I'll give you props for keeping the profane and the inane to a minimum, but you're still nothing more than a regurgitator of rnc.org talking points.

Nothing you've posted has convinced me one iota that you are actually in-country. To the contrary, your schedule and your style leads me to believe you are safely ensconced in a basement somewhere (as I choose not to believe that there are actually paid shills cruising the blogs to sow disinformation and disruption).

Comment #261: Genghis Khan said on 7/20/05 @ 9:14pm ET...

Nobody is going to be attacking any of the upcoming house parties. The "black helicopter" reference was a jab at perceived paranoia (which, based on your responses, was probably aptly perceived). If someone told me he'd be sending black helicopters my way, I'd politely thank him for his interest and then consider him a complete kook.

Don't let the Freepers get a rise out of you. Soldier on and ignore those who refuse to be enlightened. Like I said earlier, the more you feed the trolls, the more tinfoil they try to wrap around your head.

Comment #262: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/20/05 @ 9:18pm ET...

#195 Patriot. I did not believe in black helicopters in America until I watched a documentary by Alex Jones. I think it was Police State I or II. The documentary interviewed residents of this one Texas town where our Military used Black Helicopters to do a "training mission" inside the town after the town sheriff and council repeatedly denied requests to do so. The documentary actually showed home videotape of the helicopters hovering over peoples houses. During this "exercise" the military was soliciting children with money and candy to tell them what homes had weapons inside them. Despite this, no homes were broken into.
Wikipedia has a reasonably sceptical writeup on the matter.

Forget the credibility problems of Alex Jones and forget what the video was about. The fact is that there are witnesses who went on camera to describe the incident and there is videotape of the black helicopters themselves. Their existence is proven absolutely. Their purpose remains unknown.

I've spoken with several people since who make claims that they have been harassed by black helicopters. To date, I don't believe a single one of them.

It's probably both a joke and a threat. The matter is heavily shrouded in the 'conspiracy theory' blanket of paranoia and incredibility indicitive of a classic 'brookings institute' coverup.

A 'brookings institue' coverup is a coverup that follows the guidlines of a brooking institue report from the 1950s that specified how classified information can be protected by using disinformation, credibility attacks, and ridicule along with a few hints of a nonexistent conspiracy.

For instance, the last Air Force press conference on the Area 51 UFO matter was just a few years ago. I believe Clinton was still president then. Dan Rather actually attended, but not one question from the press was taken. The Colonel walked into the press room and told everyone that it was a weather balloon with child size crash dummies onboard. The purpose of the mission was to measure the effects of high altitude weather balloon reconnaisance on children. The idea was scrapped immediately after the crash.

Of course, anyone with half a brain will know this is the most incredible story imaginable. I'm almost tempted to believe in little green men before I believe that whopper. But why would the AF tell such a whopper but to pour gasoline on the conspiracy theory fires? The more people speculate, the more speculation is out there, and the more buried the truth becomes. The more protected the classified information.

Neat, huh? Later I'll tell you what options the report gave the government whenever someone actually hits upon the truth. It's a real cliffhanger.

Goodnight everyone, pleasant nightmares.

Comment #263: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 9:41pm ET...

FEAR is not the correct response.

All that is of the DARK side is embraced by FEAR and the SERPENT.

Bring your thoughts into the LIGHT of TRUTH and do not look back!

Under the cover of darkness and secrecy they prey upon others and lurk; sinister deeds, unfit character, criminality, lies and manipulation, death and destruction --- all these things and much more thrive unchecked.

EXPOSE them to the JUSTICE and RIGHTEOUSNESS of the LIGHT and their LIES will be REVEALED.

UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED...they can no longer HIDE!

It's okay to be angry. You have been betrayed and used in the worst way. Do not convert that energy into fear and helplessness.

Speak with all your might the outrage boiling under the surface and demand answers and accountability.

These are public servants. They are employed by you. Anything short of a firing squad will not quell the thirst of the American people for redress and justice.

Ignore spam; block idle nonsense but, if you receive 'actionable' threats REPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY!

The fear mongers are very confused and extremely desperate right now; isn't that obvious?

Does that mean that the 'basement' meeting should have stopped while an unpresidented call for 11 votes were required? Or the hearing should not continue when microphones and lights were turned off? Or petitons should not be signed? Or we should stop asking vital questions? Or our veterans and troops should not have us fight for them like they fought for us? Or demonstrations for peace should not prevail? Or in O'Reilly's words "Everybody needs to shut up!".

Well, I say, a resounding ABSOLUTELY NOT!!

THEY ARE EXPOSED AND IT'S TIME TO GO FOR THE JUGULAR!

If you play in to the fear mongering then you remain the victim and that's exactly where they want you to be... be afraid, be very afraid! Go buy the duct tape and plastic wrap! Terror alert red! Renew the Patriot Act!

I refuse to allow these people to dictate how I live or what I can speak === as long as I have a breath left I will speak out to anyone anywhere anytime!

That is my FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT and so many people have died for this right... DO NOT LET IT BE IN VAIN!

------------------------------

"If we do go to war, psychological operations are going to be absolutely a critical, critical part of any campaign that we must get involved in.": General H. Norman Schwarzkopf

=

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.": Joseph Goebbels was born in 1897 and died in 1945. Goebbels was Hitler's Minister of Propaganda

=

"I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong.": Abraham Lincoln

Comment #264: Jonathan Gold said on 7/20/05 @ 9:45pm ET...

< AHREF="http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3336" TARGET="_BLANK">FBI Is Keeping Documents on ACLU and Other Peaceful Groups

Comment #265: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 9:49pm ET...

Yeah, that's been going on for a while.

They're after bird watchers now too.

They're desperate to 'find the terrorists'... they need look any further than the White House.

Comment #266: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 9:54pm ET...

What's the status on random manditory drug testing for federal employees?

Comment #267: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 10:34pm ET...

Dear Congressman Conyers:

In 1989, for the first time, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on the constitutionality of testing government employees not actually suspected of drug use.

In two cases involving U.S. Customs guards and railroad workers, the majority of the Court held that urine tests are searches, but that these particular employees could be tested without being suspected drug users on the grounds that their Fourth Amendment right to privacy was outweighed by the government's interest in maintaining a drug-free workplace.

In my personal opinion and clinical view; the current events we are witnessing in break-neck speed and the erratic illogical behavior is entirely consistent with alcohol addiction and cocaine abuse and/or perhaps more.

The US taxpayers, as their employer, demands a recent drug screening profile to rule out drugs in the workplace.

The Patriot Act entitles the ability to override the Fourth Amendment privacy issues for improper search and seizure, and medical records, etc.

When Congress is handed this bill (Patriot Act) on the floor tomorrow it would certainly be the correct time to demand this accountability.

If these laws are going to be railroaded through the system then it is not unreasonable to expect that they will apply not only to the good citizens of the United States but also to our government officials; our public servants.

Thanks again, for your judicial review, statesmanship and steadfastness.

Comment #268: Sandra said on 7/20/05 @ 10:43pm ET...

Next...

Under existing law that has been violated all security clearances must be reviewed and/or revoked immediately.

What is happening in this area?

Comment #269: gcm said on 7/20/05 @ 11:43pm ET...

Sandra, whose security clearances are you talking about?

Comment #270: NO DUmmie said on 7/21/05 @ 1:03am ET...

#269

Maybe her own?

*shrugs*

Comment #271: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/21/05 @ 4:57am ET...

Rove's

*grrrr*

Comment #272: stoufi1 said on 7/21/05 @ 8:09am ET...

#158

With regards to Dred Scott, the Illinois constitition of 1848 abolished slavery and did not allow the immigration of slaves into the state. The SCOTUS, to me, incorrectly interpreted the Commerce Clause since Scott was taken to Illinois as a slave and left a slave. This is how, to me, it should have been interpreted since it appears to have violated the Illinois constitution.

On the other cases, I don't have the time to research now, but could down the road.

Comment #273: Genghis Khan said on 7/21/05 @ 12:18pm ET...

Stoufi:

Then you agree with me that some issues should not be left to the States, as they are matters equally affecting all citizens of the US.

If I am allowed rights under the US Constitution, either explicit or implied, then no individual State can deny me those rights.

You would undo this "equal protection" status by referring matters such as my right to privacy to individual States.

Comment #274: stoufi1 said on 7/21/05 @ 1:49pm ET...

#273 Genghis Khan

Here's what I believe. The Constitution is not law, but is a framework for making law, which is clearly stated as being within the realm of the legislature (States and Federal), not the judiciary. When a bill is about to become law, it must satisfy all the appropriate Articles and Amendments. And the Constitution says how to add, modify, or remove amendments. By that note, the Constitution is not flexible, but laws can be, provided they follow Constitutional guidelines.

The problem is who establishes rights? If you go back to before the 19th Amendment (Women's right to vote), no SCOTUS justice changed the law saying women must be allowed to vote in Federal elections. It took an Amendment, a legislative process, to do it. It takes longer, but it does get done. Although I don't know the history, my guess is some states did allow women to vote before passage of the 19th Amendment.

I remember recently hearing that Judge Robert Bork wrote something in the past (a book or a paper) that stated that Brown v. Board of Education was ruled correctly not by judicial activism, but by Constitutional means.

I'd love to go on, but I'm working and am almost done with lunch. Also, if you reply, I won't be around a computer till mid-week so I'm not putting you off, just unavailable.

Comment #275: sheila said on 7/21/05 @ 3:53pm ET...

You should look up Carpenter v. US to see the truth about the 4th ammendment. First the courts said that it is alright if the Government lies to get warrant,steals your property as long as they think they are in the right. The ones that you think are making the laws are not the ones that are. The ones that are, are not elected, they are appointed. That is why you must pay attention to what the president is doing at all times

Comment #276: Seth Cowen said on 7/21/05 @ 8:15pm ET...

House
Of
Bush
House
Of
Saad

Comment #277: stoufi1 said on 7/21/05 @ 11:09pm ET...

#275 sheila

Actually, one must pay attention to all the branches of the Federal government; President, Legislature, Judiciary. Plus the governments of one's own state (local, township, county, state, judicial). And you are right; the ones that are appointed are the most dangerous. Look at Kelo v. New London as well. That's why a Constitutional originalist, in the manner of a Scalia, Thomas, Rehnquist, or Bork, is desperately needed on the Supreme Court.

Also, I erred when mentioning the 1848 Illinois Constitution. Dred Scott was brought to Illinois in 1834, when the 1818 Illinois Constitution was in effect. It states that slaves could not be imported into Illinois. Therefore, when Sandford brought Scott into Illinois, he (Scott) should not have been considered a slave, ergo, property. As I stated, the Commerce clause was inappropriately used as Scott was not property in Illinois and should have been freed on the spot. The Dred Scott decision was the first truly egregious use of judicial activism.

Comment #278: rainbowsally said on 7/23/05 @ 5:38am ET...

Blurry MONDAY #109 -- Deadbeat Democrats

(Disclaimer: The house parties might be making a difference! But...)

Re. The DSM

Still holding at 1.4 million hits on the net. These hits are
not just the number of people that have read them, they are more
closely related to the rate of increase at which people are
becoming aware of this issue.

While few believe at this point that anything will be done about
the revelations in the Downing Street Memo, it is clear (to me)
that more people are continuing to become aware of the media
conspiracy to quash discussion of it.

Here's where the deadbeat Democrats in the House of Representatives
might find themselve having bet on the wrong pony to win by ignoring
the significance of the memo and going off on another goose chase
trying to get Rove.

(Present company and a few other excellent reps exempted.)

I only talked to five random people about the memo today but three
of them HAD heard about the memo, one knew all the details of it,
and another had heard of it but didn't know anything about it.

The third was a cameraman for the local TV station. He was busy
plugging and unplugging cords preparing to film an event and I asked
him, "Have you heard of the Downing Street Memo yet?"

He replied only, "Yeah, something like that."

I said, "You'd never know it from watching your TV channel."

Here's the hits counts at http://altavista.com "downing street memo"

7/12 AltaVista found 1,850,000 results
7/13 AltaVista found 1,740,000 results
7/14 AltaVista found 1,620,000 results
7/15 AltaVista found 1,510,000 results
7/16 AltaVista found 1,440,000 results
7/17 AltaVista found 1,410,000 results
7/18 AltaVista found 1,390,000 results
7/19 AltaVista found 1,380,000 results
7/20 AltaVista found 1,400,000 results
7/21 AltaVista found 1,420,000 results
7/22 AltaVista found 1,410,000 results
7/23 AltaVista found 1,410,000 results

Nothing at the Library of Congress.since June 28. The members
who have not gone on record are the DEADBEATS, and if trends
contiue, they may pay for their complacency if not complicity
with their seats.

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r109query.html
"downing street"
Nothing since June 28

Congress switchboard (202) 224-3121

Remember the "nobody but bush" strategy? We did our job but
Kerry didn't do his. We could have proven to the world that the
election was rigged if he hadn't capitulated "for the unity of
the nation". His complaint later that every vote should count
was unsulting to those of us who expected our leader to have
known what would happen--after the Florida 2000 fascist rip off.

But no.

So the "anybody but a Republican" strategy may be similarly flawed.

I'm remaining a registered Democrat but I will be eyeing the Greens
for alternatives to DEADBEAT DEMOCRATS and who knows... If enough
of my fellow Democrats feel the same way about wasting time, money,
and other resources on leaders that can't lead, maybe Green would
be a nice change.

http://politicalcompass.org
Check out the US and UK elections graphics. You might be surprised.

Here are some more DEADBEAT DEMOCRAT errors.

Before gastrulation, a fetus that splits in two becomes identical twins.
That takes us to day-12. After this point if the fetus [sic] splits
it could become conjoined (or siamese) twins.

Can you split a single soul? Are the churches objectively wrong about
conception being a magical point at which a fetus [sic] becomes a
child? What else have they gotten wrong (and why are they so quick to
condemn others when the error is demonstrably their own).

Yet DEADBEAT DEMOCRATS are abandoning reproductive rights advocacy
because they are afraid of debating reality with religious zealots?
We can do a lot better than this, can't we? Is the fact of whether
the world flat or round going to bend to the will of people who take
their delusions full strength?

Leaders in a Democracy should strive to represent reality first. Truth
above all else. That's what makes them leaders of the people instead
of followers and that is what we hope they will do when we elect them.

But let's face it. Something went wrong.

I'll take this all back if they start piping up on the House Record
on the subject of the DSM. But indications are not good. There
aren't even any Out Of Iraq Caucus articles in the Record since June
24. (You can see them at the same thomas url as above. Actually
check each hit. Some of the articles are making the opposite
point!! Can you say "deadbeat"?)

Are we weary of scripted wrestling matches yet? You can do something
about it. Be unpredictable. You can vote for NO MORE EVILS. Period.

Comment #279: eoj said on 8/5/05 @ 2:40am ET...

COMMENT 228 rainbow sally
a hit on you site does not make a believer,many see this downing street,and say "OLD NEWS""RED MEAT'
because you have so many hits do not assume most agree,that is wishful thinking at best,on this site and other sites such as this,are the same old people day in and day out,Conspericy this,Conspericy that.Of course most agree here.
On your Premis the Media is Bias in favor of Bush ,i find really funny,and farthest from the truth,because they do not agree with your actvisim,,You call them bias and the Republicans call them left wing bias.Donj't you think you may just be wrong,you mean all the mainstream is pro Bush?,that is a hard pill to swollow for your avrage American.You people were saying the very same things you are claiming now,before during and after the Election,it was all over the mainstream media,all the Bush is: Nazi,Liar,Thief,Satan,Murderer,War CriminalWoman Hater,and on and on.But the people did not believe it.Bush won,yes he stole the Election we heard that one,welkl then how did he win the Pouplar vote also,how did he steal that one?[Mind Controll?]I am a independent but closer to the republicans than the left wing Socialists,as this blog repersents.
How could Conyers and the left think they can convert this Capitolist Democracy to Socialism,which is only the first step to Communism.Many of the Commenters on this Blog are antiquated Communists left over from the almost dead Communist party,and they are reinventing themselves in the guise as progressive's which in turn is socialism,if successful would mutate into Communism,its half and first born Brother.
Some here are just fooled into believing,this is just another way,a kinder and gentler way of Governing,for anyone who wants a eye opening event go to this site

http://sovereignty.freedom.org/center/socialists.htm
it is a site that tells you just who these Socialists are in the Government,and it will tell you they want to "reconstruct"America
Congressional Members of the
Progressive Caucus

Rep Earl Hilliard (AL-07)
Rep Eni Faleomavaega (AS-AL)
Rep Ed Pastor (AZ-02)
Rep Lynn C Woolsey (CA-06)
Rep George Miller (CA-07)
Rep Nancy Pelosi (CA-08)
Rep Fortney "Pete" Stark (CA-13)
Rep Henry A. Waxman (CA-29)
Rep Xavier Becerra (CA-30)
Rep Julian C. Dixon (CA-32)
Rep Esteban Edward Torres (CA-34)
Rep Maxine Waters (CA-35)
Rep George E. Brown (CA-42)
Rep Bob Filner (CA-50)
Rep Diane DeGette (CO-01)
Rep Eleanor Holmes Norton (DC-AL)
Rep Corrine Brown (FL-03)
Rep Carrie P. Meek (FL-17)
Rep Alcee L. Hastings (FL-23)
Rep Cynthia A. McKinney (GA-04)
Rep John Lewis (GA-05)
Rep Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Rep Patsy Mink (HI-02)
Rep Jesse Jackson (IL-02)
Rep Luis Gutierrez (IL-04)
Rep Danny Davis (IL-07)
Rep Lane Evans (IL-17)
Rep Julia Carson (IN-10)
Rep John Olver (MA-01)
Rep Jim McGovern (MA-03)
Rep Barney Frank (MA-04)
Rep John Tierney (MA-06)
Rep David Bonior (MI-10)
Rep Lynn N. Rivers (MI-13)
Rep John Conyers (MI-14)
Rep Bennie G. Thompson (MS-02)
Rep Melvin L. Watt (NC-12)
Rep Donald Payne (NJ-10)
Rep Jerrold Nadler (NY-08)
Rep Major Owens (NY-11)
Rep Nydia M. Velazquez (NY-12)
Rep Charles Rangel (NY-15)
Rep Maurice Hinchey (NY-26)
Rep John LaFalce (NY-29)
Rep Marcy Kaptur (OH-09)
Rep Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Rep Louis Stokes (OH-11)
Rep Sherrod Brown (OH-13)
Rep Elizabeth Furse (OR-01)
Rep Peter A. DeFazio (OR-04)
Rep Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
Rep William Coyne (PA-14)
Rep Carlos A. Romero-Barcelo (PR-AL)
Rep Robert C. Scott (VA-03)
Rep Bernard Sanders (VT-AL)
Rep James A. McDermott (WA-07)

please read this carefully,to me this says redistribute the wealth,do away with privat Corporations,the people will own the Factories the big bussines's.was this not tried in Russia,Cuba,Argintinia,.Why woyld anyone be content,do you really think you would have more,or be better off,in Cuba,or Russia,wher would insentive come from,just to be the same as every one else?Who would decide what color clothes we ware,we would all work for the state,and all the criminals would stop,they would be content to just have what every one else has,no more $250.00 sneakers,we all ware $10.00 sneakers.Who would work harder than another[what for,why,]
why would anyone want this,even the poor get more money than any one in any other country,how could anyone in their right mind think they could trump up a vague dream,and make it reality,when it has never been done,in the history of life,what makes these people think they could just come up with a idea,rip this country apart to its Foundation,and implament this absurd never validated system,do we want to go backward?

we are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor, race and gender discrimination, environmental destruction, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo.
We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane international social order based both on democratic planning and market mechanisms to achieve equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, gender and racial equality, and non-oppressive relationships."

read between thoes lines[ we are socialists because we reject an international economic order sustained by private profit, alienated labor,]

Comment #280: eoj said on 8/5/05 @ 3:12am ET...

Comment #76: Lemon said on 7/20/05 @ 3:21am ET...
Lemon you are sure in the right Blog,

Comment #281: eoj said on 8/5/05 @ 3:38am ET...

Why do thoes Conservitives want to take our homes,how could this pass in the supreme court,for sure we do not need people of this ilk on the Supreme court,even John Dean agree's

Dean was referring to, Kelo v. The City of New London, which allows local governments to forcibly acquire private property in order to pad their tax bases, was ascribed to by the court’s liberal coalition of Justices; John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer. The only “conservative” that signed on to this unconstitutional ruling was Justice Anthony Kennedy

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