John Conyers, Jr. -- ConyersBlog

Replies: 122 Comments

Comment #1: ljm said on 7/13/05 @ 11:35pm ET...

Like the joke going around on the internet goes...Iraq should use our constitution. It was written by some really smart guys and we're not using it anyway. What a shame to be living in such Rovian times. Tom DeLay totally supports him, don't cha know?! Rove masterminds the entire Republican congressional campaign down to the precinct level, I learned today.

Comment #2: Seth Cowen said on 7/14/05 @ 12:16am ET...

I wonder, I suppose I could check, but I wonder if any one other than Republicans are voting with the Republicans along so called party lines? I keep hearing about Democrats sideing with Republicans to pass bills, for example the first USA PATRIOT act, and the un American transfer of power to the the executive branch to fight teh neverending War of Terror against the people of the WOrld including us.

Is it really just the Republicans who want to make the USA PATRIOT act permanent?.

You know I was originally kinda shocked to find that FISA existed long before the USA PATRIOT act. There is alot of bad stuff going on.. Have you seen the movie "Enemy of the State".?

Seth

Comment #3: janedoe said on 7/14/05 @ 12:18am ET...

What's wrong with this picture? Everything seems to be the inverse of what the buzz words imply.

We have a War on Freedom, Americans are less safe than they were before the presidency was determined, not by the American voter, but by a vote of 9 selected people.
And now, when national security is (supposedly) more important than any time in our nations history, we have an administration that sabotages nationional security!

I hadn't seen that statement posted above, that Iraq should use our constitution, so it doesn't go to waste. You hit the nail on the head.

Comment #4: GreyHawk121 said on 7/14/05 @ 12:23am ET...

Congressman Conyers -

There's a growing awareness of the good you are doing, as well as an awakening of the American people. Dunno if you've seen this page yet, but it's been showing up everywhere:

http://USPatriotsUnited.blogspot.com

And another (?) group of folks has put together a dedication to the soldiers, based upon the Gettysburg Address, here:

http://PatriotsAll.blogspot.com

Keep up the good work, and share those links with your fellow congressfolk. Particularly the Republican leadership, and specifically share the 'Ten Characteristics' document with Mr. Sensenbrenner and the President.

;)

Thanks for all your hard work.

Comment #5: Seth Cowen said on 7/14/05 @ 12:30am ET...

I don't think the election of GW was to blame soley on the Supreme Court. It should have never gotten there in ther first place. A lot of good intending Amerians did vote for Bush and still think he is doing a great job. The oppressors are not the people who voted for Bush,or the Supreme Court, the real oppressors are the rest of us who could not nominate a real candidate for change. John Forbes Kerry, member of the Forbes Fotrune, Skull and Bones Brother of Bush I and Bush II. Kerry was pushing for War in Iraq just as much if not more than Bush during the campaign of 2004. Americans really have been brainsoiled by Party Politics and Propaganda media for so long from both parties that the mass of voters actually have no real idea of what is going on. It is typical Fascist takeover style, divide and conquer, through Party Politics and Terror. Most people are just too busy working and swallowing television propaganda to know that whether a Republican or a Democrat is in power does not change the agenda of the Rulers of the World.

I see and hear good Republicans and good Democrats saying the same thing, but they are following blindly behind a party that misleads them.

Seth

Comment #6: Erik said on 7/14/05 @ 1:34am ET...

I would like to know how, exactly, Karl Rove gained access to the identity of an undercover C.I.A. operator. I may be wrong, but as a "Senior Political Advisor" (which was his title at the time of the leak), would he even have access to classified information of this sort? Is there any connection between this issue and John Bolton's alleged use of telephone intercepts to gather info on his political rivals? Someone needs to start asking these questions.

Erik.
SoapBox4Truth.org

Comment #7: Seth Cowen said on 7/14/05 @ 1:45am ET...

Erik #6

What questions?

Plus, I think you are posting about another topic than the one at the top of this page. I am quite new to blog, but I thought it is appropriate to a l east try and stay on topic, and if the topic leads to other points of discussion that is fine.

Maybe I missed something?

Seth

Comment #8: Happy said on 7/14/05 @ 2:56am ET...

These repugnicans are just too much. We, on the left side of the spectrum, who value such things as honesty, freedom, checks and balances in government, equal representation in government really need to evaluate our strategem and take a hard critical look at what's working and what isn't. We cannot let these repugnican ideologues come away with any more wins in '06. We need to obtain a majority so that important actions, such as pressing for impreachment proceedings against this failed white house administration, can be pursued.

I am utterly abashed. Indeed Rep. Conyers, it seems that the shock and awe campaign has begun on the domestic front.

I am genuinely concerned for the future of freedom in america. I sense that there is a growing fear of speaking out as those who would rather believe the lies of the president and the sickening flap that passes for journalism on faux news, become more and more hostile to messages of dissent.

Basically, America is losing her middle. We are being polarized as a people, ideologically, and economically.

Thanks for sticking up for us Mr. Conyers.

Comment #9: Kitty Gambler said on 7/14/05 @ 2:58am ET...

Even as an emergency response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the Patriot Act has violated the Fourth Amendment, which ensures protection against unreasonable searches and seizures. Under what and whose authority is congress empowered to make the Patriot Act the PERMANENT law of the land without first amending the U.S. Constitution to repeal the Fourth Amendment?

U.S. FOURTH AMENDMENT:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Comment #10: Happy said on 7/14/05 @ 3:02am ET...

Thank you for the legislative update, even if there isn't much good news. It would be extraordinarily difficult to find the kind of information you have relayed to us in your posting elsewhere Representative.

You're one of a kind.

Comment #11: Seth Cowen said on 7/14/05 @ 3:30am ET...

Happy

Based upon your first post on this page I think that you are a complete contrarian and hippocrit.

If you want a detailed explantation of my harsh conclusion , you simply need to
read # 8 Happy.

Seth

Comment #12: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 3:44am ET...

The SAFE Act of 2005

The Security and Freedom Enhancement Act was introduced in the 109th Congress to provide commonsense safeguards for intrusive Patriot Act powers and was created by a diverse group of members led by Republican Senator Larry Craig from Idaho.

Passing the SAFE Act would give Congress a chance to bring the Patriot Act in line with the Constitution. The SAFE Act safeguards a number of intrusive Patriot Act powers -- see a comparison of surveillance powers before and after the Patriot Act -- that share certain common themes. As a result of gag orders, or delayed notification, these powers permit surveillance with a far greater degree of secrecy than is common in most government investigations. They do not allow affected parties the opportunity to challenge government orders before a judge. Because the substantive standards for some forms of surveillance have been modified, weakened, or even eliminated, the role of a judge in checking government abuse has been made less meaningful.

The SAFE Act would not repeal any provision of the Patriot Act, nor would it take away any government surveillance or law enforcement power conferred by the Patriot Act. Rather, it would help to add some judicial, Congressional and public oversight to Patriot Act powers.

The controversy over the Patriot Act reflects the concerns of millions of Americans. Patriot Act resolutions have been passed in 379 communities in 43 states, including six statewide resolutions. A nationwide coalition has formed under the leadership of former Republican Congressman Bob Barr from Georgia, and includes groups as diverse as the ACLU, the American Conservative Union, the Free Congress Foundation and Gun Owners of America. Supporters in the Senate include Republican John Sununu from New Hampshire, Republican Lisa Murkowski from Arkansas, Democrat Dick Durbin from Illinois, Democrat Ken Salazar from Colorado and Democrat Russ Feingold from Wisconsin.

Note: This is an excerpt from the Interested Persons Memo from Timothy H. Edgar, National Security Policy Counsel, regarding the section-by-section analysis of S. 737, the Security and Freedom Enhancement (SAFE) Act of 2005. Read the entire document (pdf)

http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/safe.html

Comment #13: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 3:54am ET...

Dear Congressman/Senators:

As your constituent and a concerned American, I urge you to oppose plans to make the Patriot Act permanent, and to support the SAFE Act and its common sense fixes to the law. I join more than 400 communities, including seven states, that have passed rsolutions calling on Congress to bring the Patriot Act in line with the Constitution by including appropriate checks and balances to prevent abuse.

The Patriot Act was passed without proper debate in the terrible weeks after 9/11. Many of your colleagues had little idea what was in the bill when they voted for it. We have an opportunity today to revisit the law, fix it as needed and ensure that our law enforcement and intelligence services have the tools they need--subject to appropriate judicial and Congressional oversight.

Americans of all political stripes are worried about what could happen to their privacy if the Patriot Act is not fixed. Along with expanding the government's already broad power to secretly search our homes and not tell us for months, it makes it much easier for the government to access our records from hotels, libraries, hospitals and other places, without any facts connecting our records to a foreign terrorist, let alone probable cause.

Some in Congress want to make the Patriot Act permanent and to even expand the law to give the FBI the ability to access our personal records without any prior review by a judge at all. That cannot happen. Please support SAFE Act amendments to any reauthorization bill and prevent the Patriot Act in its current and flawed form from being made permanent.

I look forward to hearing your views on this crucial matter.

Sincerely,

Comment #14: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 4:37am ET...

Comment #4: GreyHawk121
Shared. Thank you for your contribution also.

Comment #15: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 5:35am ET...

Congressman Conyers,

Be very wary of someone with an agenda trying to spoon-feed disinformation reports into the investigation, when it comes to the CIA and downing street meeting.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/13/141246/050

The source of information, an INR document typed up by a state department analyst answers some very unsettling questions....but raises others.

The INR analyst writing the document was not actually at the meeting.

The document is a biased piece of propaganda, making it appear as though Wilson had been asked to investigate by his Wife and therefore the man can be discredited.

In actuality, the CIA who were at the meeting knew this was not accurate. Wilson was asked to investigate by senior CIA officials in Washington.

Several associates in Brewster Jennings&Associates suggested Joe Wilson be the one brought in to investigate, and Valerie agreed.

Cheney's office wanted the CIA to have this investigated, so they appointed Joe Wilson not the other way around.

But you have to be very wary of this problem, as the "biased document" could have been planted by Karl Rove and John Bolton.

Bolton had wanted the false claims of Niger giving uranium to Iraq, ever since he appeared on the scene.

He passed around documents to aid credibility to the entire report for the war.

Plus, if this memo was planted and then later Karl Rove used it directly as his source--this presents a problem concerning our national security.

Rove who fed the information to Matt Cooper, will claim that he did not have knowledge they were NOC agents because the memo appears to be fraudulent.

Then he will try to get off scott free and when Bolton is called in, the White House will try to cover it up.

The INR documents are not fraudulent; but they ARE biased and inaccurate, obviously biased for a reason....As Judith Miller was also reporting from there.

Plus, the INR documents are in fact Rove and Cheney's source for finding Brewster Jennings & Associates. Even if they didn't know it was NOC operation, after seeing the INR, they now have full culpability in revealing the whole CIA unit to be a NOC.

This has to be stressed very carefully.....Rove will do everything to discredit, the only difference is Fitzergald and the prosecutors are a smart bunch.

Its really going to come down to who forged the Niger documents....and linking it all the way up.

Doug E.

Comment #16: GreyHawk121 said on 7/14/05 @ 6:57am ET...

#2 Seth - good point; who's voting to support continuation of the Act?

#9 Kitty - that's the whole problem with the "PATRIOT" Act. It's the biggest unpatriotic thing our government has ever put into place in the history of our nation...wrong on just sooooo many levels.

#12 & #13 Sandra - thanks. Good info on the SAFE Act, and well-written letter.

#15 Doug - interesting. Thanks.

Comment #17: Rese said on 7/14/05 @ 7:34am ET...

Dear Congressman Conyors:
Is it true that the first Patriot Act was written by the executive branch, and that it was passed by many who never read it?

I thought only Congress could make the laws?

This is an example of what Rove said, he changes Constitutions.

Our Bill of Rights is envied all over the world. Yet this too will go if the terrorists in the White House are stupid enough to create one more major attack in this country.

Be careful history shows
that terrorist events during the past 200 years which have altered the governments of those nations in the
Jesuit Order's crosshairs, have always transpired in the capitol cities of those nations (Paris-1852; Moscow-1917; Berlin-1933; Peking-1949). With the removal of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches, as was done in Hitler's Germany via legal fiat, the Jesuit Order, based at their fortress of Georgetown University, will then be in total control of our resultant military dictator.

Comment #18: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 7:35am ET...

Comment #16: GreyHawk121
Thanks...send yours too at ACLU!

================================

#2 Seth -- Bipartisan Officials Urge Reauthorization of All Expiring Patriot Act Provisions

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/about_FDD/about_FDD_show.htm?doc_id=281482&attrib_id=7397

These are all former government officials, both democrat and republican, whom have advocated reauthorization. (another Washington 'think tank')

However, although I do not aspire to all of the member's views I have some respect for their ability to come together and take a moderate view to propose amendments that would have protected civil liberties and the Constitution.

I have sent the authors an email regarding the amendments that failed and will await their response before judging inappropriately.

But, it appears that the radical right wing did in fact hijack this legislation and disgarded intelligent recommendations and provisions suggested by this bi-partisan educated group.

Is it another power play?

I imagine these distinguished bipartisan professionals are not too pleased right now and are re-considering their options to affect change; perhaps in support of The Safe Act.

(Congressman Conyers was sent their proposal in advance of the committee sessions)

==============================

Comment #15: Doug Eldritch

My thanks to Doug for the above link. On the surface this group appears to promote Democracy and the Constitution --- not a strong connection to the views of the extreme of PNAC... I'm still reviewing the rest of your post to me and researching. Where did you learn that Democratic Senators are distancing from the group?

p.s. Were you able to get the Wilson-Plame Affair Timeline or do you need me to send it via email (pdf)?

Comment #19: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 8:03am ET...

Comment #17: Rese

Yes. This is true. It was authored through the Executive Branch via John Ashcroft's Attorney General Office. (Don't blame me, I voted for the dead guy -- Mel Carnahan)

It was hastily put through in the middle of the night during a time of overwhelming fear and distrust post 9/11. It was intended to provide law enforcement all the necessary means to investigate, apprehend, and incarcerate terrorists. But, now they're calling environmentalists, teachers, civil dissent, and even bird watchers are terrorists too!

Are we all terrorists in their eyes?

No one had time to read the entire script... well obviously the authors knew exactly what was in it. And a few representatives, if they had the staff, separated the stack and had their staff read what they could in a short amount of time.

Comment #20: Lemon said on 7/14/05 @ 8:16am ET...

Many of you bring excellent material and proof that what is happening behind the scene is pretty ugly yet only a tiny piece of the Iceberg.

There are three key and important documents available on the web to read. This is "The Secret Covenant" and "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

The third one is unquestionnably the more damning. This is a must read and the only original version on the web. (maths formulas included)

William Milton Cooper, a former Naval Intelligence Officer who had a Q clearance confirmed in his book "Behold a Pale Horse" (Light Technology Publishing) that this document was in possession of the Army. He actually reproduced it in his book. William paid a high price for what he revealed, he was murdered not long after his book went out.

Once you read this, you will be able to do many connections with past and present events.

Here it is:

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

Comment #21: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 8:46am ET...

Congressman Conyers

If you would like to fillibuster, I would like to mention that some time could be used reading letters from constituants or....us. Give us a topic and a day, you will probably get a dozen to choose from.

This is the kind of thing that would be reported and generate enthusiasm among the voters. As well as among the Representatives. Might even stop that bill. That would really help in a lot of ways. It would make believers out of those who wish they were, but aren't.

Hoping you will ask.
Kertis

Alternate thought, the Red Cross has a referance section on International Humanitarian Law. It is quite lengthy, And some in Congress would benifit by becoming aware of it. That's good fillibuster.

Comment #22: rainbowsally said on 7/14/05 @ 9:11am ET...

I wonder how Ann and Rush are going to turn this around.

I anticipate something like this.

Liberals stopped us from keeping guns and 50 caliber rifles out of the hands of suspected terrorists.

(I hope I post this in the right thread!! It's the opposite case.)

But this is a tricky issue.

People do have a right to bear arms and for some reason the founders saw fit to word this so that it's an absolute right, not conditional on being well regulated.

(Organizing as an armed group would be an entirely different matter! Find "milit" in the Constitution. http://usconstitution.net/const.html and don't give me any grief, all you high priced lawyers. The Preamble is clear enough about who this nation was created for and the English translation of the Constitution is already available.)

Anyway, I just want to say, that these rights, the right to bear arms, the right to privacy, etc. are not ours to trade away.

We need them all.

If any are to be done away with they must be done away with properly by a constitutional amendment.

Congress is therefore unconstitutional (as it now stands) and must be fixed.

So is the Senate.

And the executive branch is the best reason I can think of abolishing that branch altogether.

Maybe next lifetime.

Agreed?

Comment #23: rainbowsally said on 7/14/05 @ 9:59am ET...

An afterthought...

Want some practice with the Constitution?

http://usconstitution.net/const.html

Use Ctrl-F or the find text function to locate words or partial words. It' really easy. Can you find any gender-specific words like "male" or "female" anywhere in it?

(Nope. Not even in the superceded sections.)

Now, even 10 USC 311 which defines the militia (written by Congress) might not really even be constitutional.

See if you can find where it gets close to, or crosses over the line.

An EZ-Readin' intro and a link to the law (if you need it) is at wikipedia, here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia#United_States

This is important because the right to bear arms is about the only right the Patriot Act honors (from the sounds of it). And with the Minutemen with the neo-Nazi National Alliance getting away with "monitoring" our southern borders... I mean really, people.

Patriots? Patriot Act? It almost sounds sexual.

I'll bet your average high school kid has more brains than our current Congress.

That's what makes this so much fun. It's easy to catch their errors.

And it's fun to embarrass them too! But make sure you understand what you're talking about first.

Then let 'em have it with both barrels.

Congress switchboard (202) 224-3121

Here's an article (below) that will help point out the problems with letting the self-appointed militia-gangs take control of what should be Congress' turf. Note that some even came from out of state.

The article is from Southern Poverty Law Center and it identifies the unorganized militia down there as a hate group. See if you agree after reading a few paragraphs.

This is a great exercise. See how many errors you can find. And don't forget to count those in the 10 USC 311 code if you find any.

http://www.splcenter.org/
or specifically
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/news/item.jsp?aid=15

After a bit of practice, if you still don't intend to run for president, vote for me in 2006.

It's an off year, but we'd better not wait until 2008!

Here's my platform: Are we not men?

My opponent is running on the opposite platform: voting machines R us.

Can I count on (or at least hear rumors of) your vote?

.

Comment #24: rainbowsally said on 7/14/05 @ 10:02am ET...

Comment #25: rainbowsally said on 7/14/05 @ 10:04am ET...

Comment #26: rainbowsally said on 7/14/05 @ 10:10am ET...

sorry about the repost. Can anyone delete the duplicates and this note?

I thought the system hung when I was looking at the [preview] so I backed up and did a [submit].

Ouch. Bet I lose a lot of votes for that one.

Comment #27: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 10:19am ET...

#6 and #7, you're both right.

Ladies and Gentlemen
What you are exeriencing is quite alright. Don't panic!
Sooner or later, liberals will regain control of this country. And when we do, all of these powers will be available to us to use against the conservatives. All the shams of the past will then be thoroughly investigated and revealed for what they are.

In the meantime, what we need to do is to maintain a list of all those things we will want to go back to investigate properly when the time comes.

Remember, whatever powers they gather to themselves, they will hand over to us.

This is actually why I would like to see a fourth branch of government specifically to fight corruption. We would not have these problems if corrupt people knew they needed to stay so deeply hidden that they find it too difficult to be corrupt.

Comment #28: Reed31463 said on 7/14/05 @ 10:26am ET...

Does anyone have NY Rep King's email address?

Comment #29: Alma said on 7/14/05 @ 10:32am ET...

Until the London bombings I had hope that the Patriot Act might not be renewed in its entirety. All hope fled the day after the bombings when I saw Bill Schneider on CNN stating that Americans didn't mind giving up their rights in the Patriot Act to be safe. He had no data or poll to back his statement up. He just stated it as fact. Thats our unbiased media I guess.

Comment #30: Reed31463 said on 7/14/05 @ 10:35am ET...

I think he has "jumped the shark" and needs a new writer. He is threatening to shoot the media for the questions about Rove. They need a snitch in the time of war. Does the Walker ring a bell? Not that one, this one.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/terrorists_spies/spies/walker/1.html?sect=23

Comment #31: Bumpa said on 7/14/05 @ 10:36am ET...

Let me see if I got this right...It is OK to give assult rifles and 50 calibre guns cabable of blowing airplanes out of the sky to suspected terrorists. It is NOT OK to give first responders (police & firefightes) the resources, monitary and equipmentwise, they need to do their job. It is OK to jeopardize our own intellegence system by compromising a covert agent if her name isn't used and you claim you didn't know she was a covert agent. It is NOT OK to be offended by any of this, that wouldn't be "patriotic." Oh, yes, and it is "patriotic" to call our service personal "HEROES" yet we can't give them the armor they deserve to protect themselves. Telling them that it's "OK to die but otherwise you're on your own."

Can someone give me the new definition of "Patriot" as written in Bush's dictionary?

Who's side is this administration on? To all
observation, I have to say the Terrorists!

I guess I'm unpatriotic -- all this offends me.

Comment #32: Reed31463 said on 7/14/05 @ 10:59am ET...

Don't forget to line-up the newspaper reports and have REP Peter King pull the trigger.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/GOP_congressman_says_media_should_be_shot_over_Rove_fo_0713.html
===================================
House calls for Resolution of Inquiry. Just to give them something else to vote no on when elections roll around.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_will_file_Resolution_of_Inquiry_on_ou_0713.html

Comment #33: Reed31463 said on 7/14/05 @ 11:13am ET...

Can I use the current Patriot Act and name Karl Rove a suspected terrorist? He is suspected of emboldening the enemy and harming the moral of troops by passing classified information. Also, he is suspected of endangering our limited HUMINT agents and ambassadors in the field in Iraq.

Comment #34: Bill_o_Carolina said on 7/14/05 @ 11:45am ET...

#27 Jay..."Sooner or later, liberals will regain control of this country.
Not if the voting system remains rigged!

Comment #35: Ron said on 7/14/05 @ 12:06pm ET...

#34 Thats right Bill
Sorry about the long post but I don,t have the link to this,so one more time just to rub it in !

UNDER THIS SWEEPING LEGISLATION, THE GOVERNMENT CAN NOW:
1. Label you a “terrorist” if you belong to an activist group.
The USA PATRIOT Act broadly expands the official definition of terrorism, so many domestic groups that engage in certain types of civil disobedience could very well find themselves labeled as terrorists. (Sections 411, 802)
2.Search your home and not even tell you.
The USA PATRIOT Act allows the law enforcement to conduct secret “sneak and peek” searches of your home. Investigators can enter your home or office, take pictures and seize items without informing you that a warrant was issued for a very long time – if ever. (Section 213)
3.Collect information about what books you read, what you study, your purchases, your medical history and your personal finances.
The USA PATRIOT Act gives law enforcement broad access to any types of records – educational, medical, financial, sales, library, etc. – without probable cause of a crime. It also prohibits the holders of this information, like librarians, from disclosing that they have produced such records, under the threat of jail time. While a court order is required to obtain the information, the Act requires that a judge rubber stamp such orders. (Section 215)
4. Take away your property without a hearing.
The USA PATRIOT Act allows the government to seize the assets of an individual or organization without prior notice or hearing if the government says that they have engaged in or are planning an act of “domestic terrorism.” Under this law, the government could effectively bankrupt an organization with which it disagrees. (Section 806)
5. Monitor your e-mails and watch what Internet sites you visit.
The USA PATRIOT Act permits the government to monitor Internet traffic and e-mail communications on any Internet service provider without probable cause by obtaining detailed “routing” information like a web address. While this provision is supposedly aimed at lawbreakers, it sweeps broadly because e-mails and Internet traffic information of innocent individuals cannot be separated from the activity of targeted individuals. (Section 216)
6. Spy on innocent Americans.
The USA PATRIOT Act permits a vast array of information gathering on U.S. citizens to be collected and shared with the CIA (and other non-law enforcement officials) without proper judicial oversight or other safeguards. This law effectively puts the CIA back in the business of spying on Americans. (Sections 203 and 901)
7. Put immigrants in jail indefinitely.
The USA PATRIOT Act permits indefinite incarceration of immigrants and other non-citizens without the government having to show that they are, in fact, terrorists. (Section 412)
8. Wiretap you under a warrant that doesn’t even have your name on it.
The USA PATRIOT Act changes the nature of warrants for wiretaps by requiring judges to approve a wiretap without knowing who is to be tapped nor where it is to be placed. (Section 216)

The USA PATRIOT ACT and Government Actions that Threaten Our Civil Liberties:
New legislation and government take away our freedom: With great haste and secrecy and in the name of the “war on terrorism,” Congress passed legislation that gives the Executive Branch sweeping new powers that undermine the Bill of Rights and are unnecessary to keep us safe.
This 342-page USA PATRIOT Act was passed on October 26, 2001, with little debate by Members of Congress, most of whom did not even read the bill. The Administration then initiated a flurry of executive orders, regulations, and policies and practices that also threatened our rights.

The USA PATRIOT Act: Expands terrorism laws to include “domestic terrorism” which could subject political organizations to surveillance, wiretapping, harassment, and criminal action for political advocacy.
Expands the ability of law enforcement to conduct secret searches, gives them wide powers of phone and Internet surveillance, and access to highly personal medical, financial, mental health, and student records with minimal judicial oversight.
Allows FBI Agents to investigate American citizens for criminal matters without probable cause of crime if they say it is for “intelligence purposes.”
Permits non-citizens to be jailed based on mere suspicion and to be denied re-admission to the US for engaging in free speech. Suspects convicted of no crime may be detained indefinitely in six month increments without meaningful judicial review.
What rights are being threatened?
First Amendment - Freedom of religion, speech, assembly, and the press.
Fourth Amendment - Freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures.
Fifth Amendment - No person to be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.
Sixth Amendment - Right to a speedy public trial by an impartial jury, right to be informed of the facts of the accusation, right to confront witnesses and have the assistance of counsel.
Eighth Amendment - No excessive bail or cruel and unusual punishment shall be imposed.
Fourteenth Amendment - All persons (citizens and noncitizens) within the US are entitled to due process and the equal protection of the laws.
New Federal Executive Branch Actions:
• 8,000 Arab and South Asian immigrants have been
interrogated because of their religion or ethnic background, not because of actual wrongdoing.
• Thousands of men, mostly of Arab and South Asian origin, have been held in secretive federal custody for weeks and months, sometimes without any charges filed against them. The government has refused to publish their names and whereabouts, even when ordered to do so by the courts.
• The press and the public have been barred from immigration court hearings of those detained after September 11th and the courts are ordered to keep secret even that the hearings are taking place.
• The government is allowed to monitor communications between federal detainees and their lawyers, destroying the attorneyclient privilege and threatening the right to counsel.
• New Attorney General Guidelines allow FBI spying on religious and political organizations and individuals without having evidence of wrongdoing.
• President Bush has ordered military commissions to be set up to try suspected terrorists who are not citizens. They can convict based on hearsay and secret evidence by only two-thirds vote.
• American citizens suspected of terrorism are being held indefinitely in military custody without being charged and without access to lawyers.

Comment #36: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 12:20pm ET...

Ron, you forgot a few.

they can imprison Americans without charges indefinitely.
exempt anyone they want from prosecution.
discuss classified information with reporters at will.
Conduct secret arrests, essentially making people disappear in the night.
Put people on trial without informing them of the charge.
Create information out of thin air and actually have it accepted as fact.
Retaliate against those who question them.
Arrest and hold people who protest their actions. (as in the case of the RNC convention)
And let's not forget harbor a fugitive and ignore inquiries.

Comment #37: Jonathan Gold said on 7/14/05 @ 12:35pm ET...

Here's the sad thing. Everyone always laughs at me when I say we're losing our Civil Liberties. They do so after asking me how my life has changed since the inception of the Patriot Act. It hasn't, as most people's lives haven't.

The changes that are being implemented today, will have an impact on our lives in the future.

20 years from now, when people are being arrested for speaking their mind, etc... that's when people will say, "Hey, ya know... maybe the Patriot Act wasn't such a good thing."

Comment #38: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 1:24pm ET...

Bush Administration Documents on Secrecy Policy

====================================

Sandra : Pulling for you and yours.

Kertis

Comment #39: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 1:27pm ET...

Bush Administration Documents on Secrecy Policy

====================================

Sandra : Pulling for you and yours.

Kertis

Comment #40: epppie said on 7/14/05 @ 2:13pm ET...

The way I see it, this is the sort of thing in which the Pubs show their hand. What reason could there be for making these provisions permanent, other than establishing a police state.

Related issues - the new restrictions on appealing conviction they are working on. Once they throw you in the slammer, you'll be in there for good.

Comment #41: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 2:23pm ET...

Government Secrecy Related Web Sites

Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear.
~William E. Gladstone, 1866

Sorry about the double post.

I appreciate this venue.
Kertis

Comment #42: Patriot said on 7/14/05 @ 2:43pm ET...

We need to get Larry Flynt on the case.

Comment #43: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 2:49pm ET...

Congressman Conyers

Could this be the real reason that we are in trouble?

==================================

The number of Americans in prison for drug offenses has multiplied by 10 since 1980, from 41,000 to 458,000. The 458,000 men and women now in U.S. prisons on drug charges are 100,000 more than all prisoners in the European Union, whose population is 100 million more than ours. The annual cost of incarcerating them is $9 billion.

The great irony of the growth in imprisoned drug users--much of it occurring under Democratic administrations, is that it probably cost the Democrats the Presidency and the Congress.

================================

Locking people away for behavior which is not criminal costs much more than money. It costs Freedom. And not just thiers. The 130th anniversary of the first drug prohibition law is coming around on November 15. After six generations drugs are as prevelant as they could possibly be. What have we learned from this, and what have we earned?

Thank you.
Kertis

Comment #44: clbrune said on 7/14/05 @ 2:53pm ET...

#15: Doug Eldritch

Regarding the Rove/Wilson topic and the source of Plame's name. I agree the Republican spin is trying to discredit Wilson by claiming his wife dispatched him to Niger; however, a straightforward read of the INR document shows Plame "had the IDEA to dispatch (Wilson, her husband)" and she only "intoduced" Wilson to the CIA officials. There is no suggestion that Plame authorized Wilson's trip, or selected him to go. She simply knew he was highly qualified for a specific mission.

Cheney asked the CIA to investigate the possibility that Iraq got uranium from Niger. Plame figured her husband was qualified, and did the right thing: set up a meeting. CIA officials talked with Wilson, decided he was qualified, and sent him to Niger.

The attacks on Wilson simply alter the facts to say "His wife sent him." (A related attack is that "Wilson said the VP sent him--that makes him a lying liar!" Wilson never claimed the VP sent him.)

Comment #45: Bumpa said on 7/14/05 @ 3:03pm ET...

Let me see if I've got this right: - It is OK to allow suspected terrorists to have assault rifles and weapons (50 calibre) capable of blowing aircraft out of the skys, But it is NOT OK to allow first responders the necessary funding and support so they may do their jobs effectively. And it is perfectly alright to jeopardize National Security provided you don't actually name the person who is a covert agent. By the same token it is OK to call soldiers "Heroes" but NOT OK to supply them with armor to protect themselves, meaning that it is acceptable to die but other than that their on their own.

I have a couple of questions, 1; How does the Bush administration define: Patriot? 2; Who's side is Bush fighting for? The Patriot Act seems to be an asinine approach to making us safer from terrorism.

Comment #46: Citizen J said on 7/14/05 @ 3:06pm ET...

Post #37- I'm not laughing, and I don't think anyone here is either. Anybody who knows anything about the "Patriot Act" should be VERY VERY CONCERNED.
Patriot etal, AWESOME job on the timeline!

Comment #47: Ron said on 7/14/05 @ 3:09pm ET...

The Bush Hitler Thing

Comment #48: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 3:12pm ET...

Forget that, we really need a modern day Jack Anderson.

Making it easier for them to take over is also making it easier for us to take over. There is no greater way of convincing them it is a mistake than to tell them flat out how we intend to use those powers against them as soon as we get the chance.

First, we will assign most GOP Senators and Representatives the title "enemy combatant" and "possible terrorist" so we can ship them all out to some foreign land (ouside the judicial branch's jurisdiction) and hold them indefinitely without external contact, without charges, without legal recourse, and certainly without legal representation.

Perhaps we shall render a few key individuals for further interrogation. All of their personal property, and the property of their corporate associates, supporters, and employees will be confiscated and fully examined as part of the investigation.

Any media outlet that does not toe the line with us will automatically get booted out of the White House press room. Anyone who reports classified information will be automatically jailed pending an investigation.

National Security will be paramount so nobody within any other branch shall be allowed to speak with any reporter, senator, or representative, except the leader of committees (they will all be democrats).

Anything you folks would like to add that we can do to the repugnicans if they pass this power on to us? We ought to create a list of things we can do so Senator Conyers can bring his colleagues this news.

Comment #49: Ron said on 7/14/05 @ 3:38pm ET...

#48: Jay Lechnyr

Jay you finally hit the nail on the head. All we have to do is become repuglickans and all of our problems are solved.
We don't really have to be repuglickans all we have to do is act that way. Who will know the difference!
What fun we will have putting folks in jail, torturing their families asf.
Why we could even ruin the constitution a little more,we could ban the democratic party ,forever!.
What do you think,? After we get all the power we could use some of the prisoners as suicide bombers! Oh what fun. We could sit around and get waisted and watch as some of the dumber ones starved to death. How about offering some work for the real destitute fathers ,for their daughters. Gee I could go on and on but the truth is no fun !

Comment #50: Reed31463 said on 7/14/05 @ 4:07pm ET...

Comment #51: Ron said on 7/14/05 @ 4:38pm ET...

#50: Reed31463
I was having a problem pulling this up,so I reposted for you !

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Democrats_will_file_Resolution_of_Inquiry_on_ou_0713.html

Comment #52: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 4:39pm ET...

Actually, I was thinking of telling these people about the things we could "legally" do with these powers that they want to make permanent. What does a republican fear most? A democrat with the power to screw him over.

Yes, it's their own fear tactics used against them, but I'm sure a couple of them would be convinced by it.

right now, we can "legally" detain people without charges. We can make secret arrests so people can literally disappear into the night. We can render them to foreign agents. Even if those "foreign agents" happen to be a latin american meat packing glitterati. We can send people ouside the jurisdiction of the federal court system. We can confiscate all manner of property and "legally" keep it indefinitly.

What republican would not fear this kind of power in the hands of a DNC controlled White House?

Comment #53: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 4:56pm ET...

Here's hoping

Comment #54: Ron said on 7/14/05 @ 5:04pm ET...

Jay first of all I'm on your side(<:
I was being facetious.
I see your point and we should make a list of what we can do better . BUT,he who has the power will not relinquish it freely.
We will have to wring it out of them.I sincerely hope that our efforts here will contribute to their demise,but are we prepared to turn up the heat?
I'm go on that . These chicken hawks do not worry me!
They have proven to me beyond any doubt whatsoever ,that they must go.
I am very appreciative of Rep. Conyers for his untiring efforts to save our country.

Comment #55: Krackonis said on 7/14/05 @ 5:51pm ET...

Not being a member of the United States, but standing far from it, I would like others here to know, that your movements for democracy there should accelerate. I mean that with sincerity. The dismantling of the Patriot Act is a good first step.
The growing calls that I have been hearing from around the world is that 23-28 "Peace Loving" nations, lead by China, offers the best chance at "halting the imperial advances" of the United States.

Simply put. There begins the growing trend to stop the United States by military force. Initially, it sounds rediculous.

However, the principle which is being utilized here is this: There is no legal basis for a preemptive strike unless an attack is imminent. The nations of the world live in imminent danger of "ultimate doom" by the United States and it's puppet states it controls. All such should be considered acceptable targets in response to the inaliable right of the "peace loving" nations to defend themselves from the "imminent danger" that the United States poses on their sovriegnty.

In short, this is the beginning of the start towards World War Three. Growing animosity and alienation by even the Social Democrats of Europe has pushed the systems of the world, environmentally and politically, to the brink.

The brink is now here. We are now in it, and the United States is in grave, sincere, danger of becoming that which they claim to loath, "Totalitarian Corporate Fascists". I don't think that there is an American who wants to be in that crowd, but, to even the non-oppressed or "friendly states", torture, murder and the starvation of countless people of brown complexion, combined with the abhorent anti-libertarian, anti-rights agenda, adds up to that exact conclusion.

Fighting the United States' Imperial dominance is valid by any stretch of the word, and I am positive that if such a motion was brought before the UN, such a motion would pass(with the two votes against being the usual two, Israel and the US). Saving the world is more important than saving a country that has strayed to far and become the oppressor it fears. It's obvious the people are not in control, and as one should support the freedom fighters in Iraq, we should help support the freedom fighters in America now.

I will offer my support to you, the unground freedom fighters of the US, until such time as my country too delcares war on yours. After that, it's out of our hands.

Comment #56: van said on 7/14/05 @ 5:57pm ET...

ha ha.

Poor JC lost his civil liberties to the evil George W Bush. Perhaps JC could tell us what he cannot do that he could do before the patriot act was enacted. Unless JC has been planning some criminal activities in his home or office, there is nothing to worry about.

And really kertis, us representatives (even special ones such as JC) do not have the ability to filibuster as that is a senate rule and not a house rule.

Comment #57: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 6:27pm ET...

I question why you represenatives, van, lay down and roll over like weakling dogs.

You do realize now that the PATRIOT ACT, would permit government to put people in jail over library records?

They could arrest someone over the smallest thing, as long as they are a suspected combatant.

But hey, why not ask your friend over there Randy Cunningham?

"California congressman who got boat, home deals to quit: Developing"
http://rawstory.com

I mean really, how much more obvious can you get?

Meanwhile, corrupt DLC democrats need to be flushed out by the forces that be. I've heard that even Joe Biden may quit.

Regarding this website,
http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm

Bill and William Kristol of PNAC head up the think-tank, which is in place to make up all policy in Iraq and elsewhere.

One of their biggest coups was telling the world that the muslim population have AIDS. (And this claim is possibly false, but that is the point.) Now, they plan to instill a certain set of values.

And as you can see Donna Brazille and other high-ranking DLC democrats are all over this commission.

Remember they are getting something out of this deal, and no doubt are encouraged to participate in its active corruption daily.

Doug E.

Comment #58: Citizen J said on 7/14/05 @ 6:49pm ET...

Van #56- "...some criminal activities in his home or office, there is nothing to worry about."
That's just such NONSENSE, but it's to be expected from your side of the aisle- you and your kind suffer from a complete lack of vision and completely misplace your trust in authority. I'm SURE they'll use the power completely responsibly. If you buy that, I've got a great bridge in San Francisco that I think you'll be interested in.

Comment #59: van said on 7/14/05 @ 7:14pm ET...

wow. PNAC huh? What's next? Should i watch the Power of Nightmares again or sign up at moveon?

What does a (probably) dishonest congressman have to do with the patriot act doug? I think you are being a little hyperbolic concerning library records and arrest powers. This has nothing to do with my side, or your side. (I thought that as Americans, we were on the same side) I am honestly asking you or JC or citizen nonsense with the bridge to sell, or anyone else here to tell me what they cannot do now that they could do prior to the implementation of the patriot act?

Comment #60: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 7:21pm ET...

IF I MAY PLEASE HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION

The links below lead to two of the best reporters I have ever encountered. The first is an Englishman. In one day he wrote a perfect analysis of the London bombing. Stunningly perfect. No reasonable person can read the whole thing and not know that s/he KNOWS what actually happened. The second is a Lebonese man of Iraqi descent, reporting the events in Iraq and facing censorship, in part because he is so damn good, in part because his magnaminity toward Americans is so deeply touching as to make me cry.

These two men have written the speech that needs to be read on the floor of the Congress while obstructing legislation.

This IS the fillibuster.

John Leonard

Dahr Jamail

Letter to the American people

There is a lot of matierial here. I encourage everyone to read as much of it as you can. I encourage everyone to write and thank Mr. Jamail.

=================================================================================================================

Congressman Conyers

You are now fully armed to fillibuster. There is enough in this one post to allow you to talk all day, without changing the subject. The ring of truth in these mens words will drown the bells of Saint Marys'. This is obviously the truth and we have never heard it, this PROVES our media is controlled.

I don't want to over sell it, I rely on your judgement.
I suggest you read the Letter to the American People first, and I suggest you save it to use last.

=================================================================================================================

Patriot : I would like to ask you how to properly post this. I made a mess last time, I don't want to do that again.

==================================================================================================================

Krackonis : Thank you very sincerly.

==================================================================================================================

Van : What? You dont think I have a Senator? You don't think Congressman Conyers is an excellant contact in the Congress? You don't think that in fourty years he might have learned something? You don't think he could be relaxing on any beach he wanted IF he wanted?

==================================================================================================================

hcocdr : Go dance in a minefield.

==================================================================================================================

Dummie : Have you wised up yet?

==================================================================================================================

I love democracy.
Kertis

Comment #61: van said on 7/14/05 @ 7:28pm ET...

nice way to support the troops there kertis "hcocdr : Go dance in a minefield." are you seriously suggesting that you wish for more of our troops to die? if you are a us citizen, i would assume that you have two senators. that does not matter however as you keep offering info for JC to use during a fillibuster, which he is not able to do as JC is not a senator.

Comment #62: Genghis Khan said on 7/14/05 @ 8:05pm ET...

Regarding the Timeline Project:

The portion regarding Cheney's 1991 SOREF speech has a broken link. The Washington Institute removed the text of Cheney's speech in the first few weeks of 2005. However, the page was recaptured thanks to Google cache and re-posted here.

Comment #63: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 8:09pm ET...

Kertis,

Excellent point. And van just what is so scary to you about PNAC? Could it be the fact that they are running the show?

Oh absolutely, this is about all americans.

And whining scuttlebugs who don't choose to do anything and think the patriot act, which allows them to arrest people on a variety of frivilous charges, are not helping america win this battle.

Would you rather have them stop by your front door and say, "You are not a supporter of the war so we are going to deport you and lock you up." As that is what the P.A. has and will authorize, as they did during the Nixon years.

It's not some kind of joke and you're going to get caught up in it.

Doug E.

Comment #64: van said on 7/14/05 @ 8:18pm ET...

you are so full of it dougey. If what you just said were true, all of you people here would have been locked up already. You claim the PA allows this yet here you are, free to say anything you wish on a congressman's blog. You are the joke, you just don't get it yet.

Comment #65: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 8:26pm ET...

Van #61, no lets make that Dear Van

You seem to be unaware of the context of my remark regarding hcocdr. However, as it is certian that you understand the context of my remarks regarding you, yet prefer to respond to something aimed at a man with an abusive attitude, I will graciously allow the comment to which you have an affinity to apply to you also.

As for the remainder of your post, the redundant section, it is my supposition that Representative Conyers has been around the hill once or twice, as I alluded in the remark I directed to you.

Good Day
Kertis

Comment #66: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 8:37pm ET...

Something called "denial" is the only thing you are living proof of.

It's already happened everywhere, van, only they need to catch you first. And they will do the same thing to you, this is what the PATRIOT ACT allows. That means in the end its up to you to stay out of their line of sight.

Anyone who is against wars is already a suspected enemy, read your commander Rush Limbaugh's newest speech for good measure.

Doug E.

Comment #67: van said on 7/14/05 @ 8:38pm ET...

not dear kertis

regardless of one's attitude, do you really wish for hcocdr or myself to die? really? what crime have we commited that calls for our deaths?

Comment #68: Kertis said on 7/14/05 @ 8:40pm ET...

Comment #63: Doug Eldritch

Uh..I didnt think i'd made a point. I thought I'd found a modern day Jack Anderson.

Comment #48: Jay Lechnyr

Hi. Check out my Jack!

This has been a good day
Kertis

Comment #69: van said on 7/14/05 @ 8:42pm ET...

I thought denial was a river in egypt dougey. The PA allows no such thing and you know it. Why do you continue to perpetuate this lie.
I was unaware of Rush's constitutional authority to arrest suspected enemy personnel, are you sure about that?

Comment #70: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 8:52pm ET...

Van,

One can't claim to know what the patriot act does or doesn't do if they haven't read it.

http://forums.streport.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/patriot_act.html

Instead of putting on your hat, I think you better read the entire constitutional ammendment dubbed patriot act.

Doug E.

Comment #71: van said on 7/14/05 @ 9:11pm ET...

Instead of refering me to other sites offering slanted analysis, why can you not answer a simple question? I will ask as clear as i can here.

What is it that you, dougey the american (i presume) cannot do now because of the PA that you could do before it was signed into law?

Comment #72: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 9:21pm ET...

Kertis/Doug... Excellent links! Keep up the good work ;0)

=================================

Van... Thanks. Your participation in the study is appreciated.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Tests on mice suggest the brain damage caused by Alzheimer's disease may be at least partly reversible, researchers reported Thursday.

Comment #73: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 9:25pm ET...

Just what can I do and can't I do?

*Laughs*

Is it true what they say about most of the republicans being braindead to any reality?

Have any of them, yourself either, even read the patriot act?

If anyone so much as checks out a book that they disagree with, it is RED FLAGGED.

If you are an immigrant in the USA, you can have your citizenship revoked immediately for any reason. That includes african-americans.

Especially if you are poor or low income, your citizenship is not protected. In fact, they have the right to search your belongings.

Strip-searches in airports are now regularly mandatory. They can also willfully remove you if there is something on your car they disagree with.

Oh and on top of all this, you are required to show more than 2 forms of photo ID in states like Georgia. Suspected terrorists could be walking around everywhere, so now it is neccesary you have ID, or you're out.

Doug E.

Comment #74: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 9:27pm ET...

Thanks Doug...
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/

28 senators call for formal Halliburton inquiry
RAW STORY

Twenty eight Democratic U.S. Senators, led by U.S. Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND), are calling for a formal Department of Defense investigation into what they described as “alarming” reports of fraudulent, wasteful and abusive practices by Halliburton in providing food to U.S. troops in Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/28_senators_call_for_formal_Halliburton_inqui_0713.html

Comment #75: van said on 7/14/05 @ 9:33pm ET...

"redflagging" someone who checks out "Bomb-building for dummies" is ok with me dougey.

you said
"If you are an immigrant in the USA, you can have your citizenship revoked immediately for any reason. That includes african-americans."

I am going to have to ask you to prove that dougey as i think you are lying.

While i am not one to quote democrats often, i thought Sen Feinstein, (D-Calif) showed a rare trip towards reason here.

"California's Dianne Feinstein went further still, in a stern and lengthy lecture about the concrete reality of U.S. anti-terrorism law--as opposed to the paranoiac fantasy version now being circulated throughout the land by the likes of Bob Barr and Howard Dean. How's about we concentrate on some facts, Feinstein suggested.

"I've tried to see what has happened in the complaints that have come in," she said, "and I've received to date 21,434 complaints about the Patriot Act." Except these turned out to be unrelated civil liberties gripes, or complaints about a "Patriot Act II" that doesn't yet exist. "I have never had a single [verified] abuse of the Patriot Act reported to me. My staff emailed the ACLU and asked them for instances of actual abuses. They emailed back and said they had none."

The widespread hullabaloo over the Patriot Act, Senator Feinstein concluded, proceeds from "substantial uncertainty . . . about what this bill actually does do." And "perhaps some ignorance," she added. "

end quote
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/291ryznn.asp?pg=2

Comment #76: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 9:35pm ET...

They paved Paradise and put up a parking lot....

Two blocks away they have demolished a Texaco station (abandoned in the middle of the night without announcement) and on the opposite corner the following week a BP station disapeared overnight.

Now what do we have you ask?

CVS Pharmacy construction now screams across the street on the opposite corner to the workers building the Walgreens.

There you have it folks. Don't worry your pretty little heads about Peak Oil... take drugs instead!

Comment #77: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 9:41pm ET...

van,

Oh no, you aren't allowed to check out books they disagree with. That includes books on world war II, and this is BECAUSE of the patriot act.

Plus you just quoted Dianne Feinstein, one of the best known DLC democrats of all time!

Do you think her bought, and paid for corporate behind would give a shit about civil rights abuse?

Or "civilians" being deported to Guantanamo Bay?

Do you see where she comes from?
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

That's what I thought...Once again the prosecution rests. Another shill just like Randy Cunningham both in California.

Doug E.

Comment #78: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 9:44pm ET...

Rush "ACLU a bunch of liberal crybabies"........HELP ME THEY'RE AFTER MY MEDICAL RECORDS!!!!!!

Oh, I get it. It's only appropriate to quote the ACLU when you need us.

The point is, if some of the provisions in the Patriot Act are allowed to be permanent then the abuse of power will go on unchecked and against the PEOPLE that, in and of itself is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Comment #79: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 9:46pm ET...

Van, you are spreading propaganda with your assertion. There are plenty that JC and any of the rest of us cannot do under the patriot act. Such as:
Protect our property from confiscation outside the "search and seizure" laws.
Our right to legal representation has been abridged.
We no longer need be charged with a crime to be imprisoned indefinitely.
We can no longer rely on having any civil or human rights or any rights accorded by the Geneva Conventions.
Our government need not arrest us in order to make us disappear.
Our telephones, offices, homes, and vehicles can be bugged with only a secret order, without our knowledge and without any cause listed on the order. In other words, if some agent does not like me personally, he can bug everything around me without having to answer to anyone else.
I no longer have the right to protest without the risk of being labelled a terrorist.
According to Sec. 802, (a)(5)(B)(ii), "the term 'domestic terrorism' means activities that appear to be intended to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." Again: If the activity appears to be intended to influence the policy of a government - not just the United States government - by intimidation or coersion, it's domestic terrorism
By this definition, by trying to force Bush to respond to the DSM, JC qualifies as a domestic terrorist. As is almost all polititians on both sides of the aisle who try to influence government through any form of coersion or intimidation. This also makes almost every member of the Bush Administration a domestic terrorist. According to the definition, many of my own suggestions make me domestic terrorist. Yes, I live with the fear that any night now, agents will bust down my door and make me disappear into the night. And by what little I have said and done, they have every right to do so.

And I will have absolutely no recourse to the law if that happens. The only thing I could hope for, then, is regime change. And BTW, simply by applying the term "regime change" to the Bush Administration, I just qualified again as a domestic terrorist.

There are plenty of rights the Patriot Act infringes upon. There are plenty of things I cannot do or say without being labelled as a domestic terrorist.

Now, van, why are you trying to spread propaganda on this blog?

Comment #80: van said on 7/14/05 @ 9:54pm ET...

"...the prosecution rests." What prosecution are you talking about dougey.

Why do you continue to lie about the PA. Tell me please what WWII book you could not check out from a library, or any book you could not check out for that matter. Absurd hyperbole is getting you people nowhere fast. Bush is Hitler, rough interogations = torture, dsm = anything important. All this has done is make the left lose more elections. Einstein said that doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result is the definiton of insanity. You might need to try a new tactic if you want something to change.

Comment #81: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 9:57pm ET...

Under this sweeping legislation, the government can …

1) SEARCH YOUR HOME AND NOT EVEN TELL YOU. The USA Patriot Act expands law enforcement’s ability to conduct secret “sneak and peek” searches of your home. Investigators can enter your home or office, take pictures and seize items without informing you that a warrant was issued, for an indefinite period of time. (SECTION 213)

2) COLLECT INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT BOOKS YOU READ, WHAT YOU STUDY, YOUR PURCHASES AND YOUR MEDICAL HISTORY. The USA Patriot Act gives law enforcement broad access to any types of records – medical, financial, gun, library, educational, sales, etc. – without probable cause of a crime. It also prohibits the holders of this information, like librarians, from disclosing that they have produced such records, under threat of imprisonment. The court orders are issued by a secret intelligence court in Washington and judges have little power to deny applications. (SECTION 215)

3) SEIZE A WIDE VARIETY OF BUSINESS AND FINANCIAL RECORDS, and in certain instances access the membership lists of organizations that provide even very limited Internet services (message boards on your church website for instance) using “national security letters,” or NSLs, which are issued at the sole discretion of the Justice Department. The Patriot Act expanded access to these NSLs, which also impose a blanket gag order on recipients and are not subject to judicial review. (SECTION 505)

4) READ PARTS OF YOUR E-MAILS AND MONITOR WHAT YOU LOOK AT ON-LINE. The Patriot Act lets the government get records that could show the subject lines of your e-mails and details about your Web surfing habits (like your recent research on Google), all without probable cause. (SECTION 216)

Comment #82: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/14/05 @ 10:03pm ET...

One more thing before I go to bed. According to the official Patriot Act definition of domestic terrorism, every word and act the Bush administration did in the time leading up to and including the war in Iraq was intended to influence the Iraqi government through the use of coersion and/or intimidation. That qualifies the entire federal government as domestic terrorists.
The entire Bush administration is a terrorist organization and that makes the United States a nation that aids, supports, and funds terrorism. We are, by our own definition, a terrorist state.

No wonder the rest of the world is considering their options for military action against us.

Pleasant dreams.

Comment #83: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 10:03pm ET...

But we can't get that way, since the only definition of insanity here is you.

YOU are not living in reality van......And you know it.

Guantanamo Bay torture happens to innocents regularly....And you KNOW it.

Our prevention of terrorism has only increased terrorism....And you KNOW it.

Our civil rights are on the rocks and slipping right off the cliff....And you KNOW it.

And you don't have anyone to blame for it anymore, vanny, because its only your people who caused it.

Oh and the Dianne Feinsteins of the world. A little corporate cash makes a lot more difference than a thousand dead, don't you see....

http://www.library.umass.edu/subject/patriotact/

So after actually reading the patriot act, which allows you to be charged with a crime even if one has not been committed, THEN why don't you come back.

This is widely covered under the act if you are an immigrant, apparently if you have a different color skin you are more likely to be harassed as provided by the act. Do you find that part interesting at all?

Doug E.

Comment #84: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 10:09pm ET...

Sorry for length of post; nite Jay ;-)
\

Troubling Sections That Sunset

Sec. 201 Expands wiretap-eligible federal criminal offenses.

Sec. 202 New wiretap authority relating to computer crime.

Sec. 203(b) Allows disclosure of information gathered in criminal investigation, including wiretaps, to intelligence, immigration and "national security" officials.

Sec. 203(d) Same as subsection 203(b) above.

Sec. 206 Creates roving wiretap authority (that is, the court order follows the target, not the phone) under FISA; did not include a requirement (which is included in other roving wiretap laws) that the eavesdropper make sure the target is actually using the device being monitored.

Sec. 207 Permits FISA wiretaps to continue for as long as a year; expands duration of physical search orders.

Sec. 212 Government can demand records and content from communications providers without consent, notice or judicial review in an emergency.

Sec. 214 Permits the government to get the telephone numbers dialed to and from a particular phone as well as Internet "routing" information that may contain some substantive content of the communications, with minimal judicial review under FISA.

Sec. 215 Allows the FBI to use FISA court orders to seize any "tangible thing," including highly sensitive medical, library, business and travel records, from a wide variety of institutions under an extremely weak standard of judicial review.

Sec. 217 Interception of "computer trespasser" communications without a judge's assent.

Sec. 218 Allows criminal investigators to use espionage powers, which require little evidence of criminal wrongdoing, even if gathering foreign intelligence is only a "significant purpose" of the investigation, instead of the more demanding "primary purpose" that was the law before this provision passed.

Sec. 220 Establishes nationwide service of search warrants for electronic evidence, opening the door to judge-shopping. Permanent But Problematic Patriot Act Sections

Permanent Provisions that Still Pose Problems for Civil Liberties

Sec. 213 Authorizes and expands “sneak and peek” delayed-notice search warrants.

Sec. 216 Permits the seizure of Internet "routing" information (e.g., website links, addressing information) in criminal cases under a low standard of proof, without protections against the unwarranted seizure of possible content.

Sec. 219 Establishes nationwide service of search warrants for physical evidence.

Sec. 411 Expanded grounds for deportation and exclusion from the country for alleged support of terrorist groups or causes.

Sec. 412 Permits the attorney general to unilaterally detain non-citizen terrorist suspects for seven days without charges; requires judicial review at six month intervals for indefinite detention.

Sec. 505 Authorizes the government to seize financial, Internet, credit and telephone records without prior judicial review and without articulable suspicion that the target is a terrorist or spy.

Sec. 507 Expands access to student records without individual suspicion.

Sec. 508 Same as Sec. 507.

Sec. 802 Defines "domestic terrorism" to include any act that is "dangerous to human life," involves a violation of any state or federal law and is intended to influence government policy or coerce a civilian population. The ACLU fears protesters will be targeted under this section.

Sec. 901 Permits the head of the the intelligence community to set "requirements and priorities" for domestic spying, which could put the CIA back in the business of monitoring Americans' lawful activities.

Title III – International Money Laundering Abatement and Anti-Terrorist Financing

Under section 303, all of Title III, which obligates banks and other financial institutions to furnish a great deal of customer information to the government, is now permanent. Congress could have passed a joint resolution before the beginning of fiscal year 2005 (which started in October 2004) to sunset the title, but did not do so, and instead repealed that special review provision instead. Title III also imposes strict and expensive new identity verification requirements on financial institutions.

See www.aclu.org/patriot for the full text of Title III.

Comment #85: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 10:15pm ET...

Comment #76
Yes, I know...completely off topic but I think I showed considerable restraint ;-0)

Comment #86: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 10:22pm ET...

Remember what makes freepers like Ken Mehlman sick,

The democratic party is the party of all shapes and colors, it is the party of including all races.

http://www.democrats.org/communities.html

You meet millions of black, arab, white and italian democrats every day. You meet mostly white uptight southerners who all have the same view of justice....in the republican party.

Today and all around, the party who doesn't harbor traitors, corrupt corporate interests, and white christians who destroy our real christianity.....Is the democratic party.

The republican party emboldens and holds all of these values, and it makes an exscuse for them, by saying it is above the law.

Well what does america think......Constand showed us something here didn't he, are they really above the law?

Doug E.

Comment #87: Sandra said on 7/14/05 @ 10:36pm ET...

"You meet mostly white uptight southerners who all have the same view of justice....in the republican party."

Like Haliburton's Redneck Mafia ?

A man with ties to New Mexico working in Iraq as a security coordinator for a subsidiary of Halliburton was severely beaten last week by a group of fellow employees reportedly called the "Redneck Mafia."

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/12194.html

Comment #88: van said on 7/14/05 @ 10:40pm ET...

#79

Has your property been confiscated outside, or inside for that matter, of search and seizure laws?
Have you been denied the right to legal representation? When?
Have you been indefinitely imprisoned without being charged with a crime?
Which human rights are you no longer allowed to have?
Have you or anyone you know been disappeared?

Intimidate means: to make timid; to fill with fear. Coerce means: to compel by force or intimidation. So what you are saying is that JC is trying to coerce Bush, or intimidate Bush and this could make him a terrorist?

I doubt that Mr. Bush has given more than a passing thought (such as “Who is that guy and why is he in the basement with a bunch of anti-semites?”) to JC and his meaningless hearings, therefore, I doubt that JC is considered a domestic terrorist by the government. Probably a fool, and a useful one at that, but not a terrorist.

Jengis Kerry called for “regime change” during the election. I do not recall him being arrested or “disappeared” when he said that. Do you have any evidence that this happened? I thought not.

There is no propaganda in my words, only some questions regarding the truthfulness of JC and others here at this blog. If you don’t like the questions, or that fact that you have no evidence to back up your silly claims of tyranny gone wild, well that is too bad as I have as much right to free speech and the use of this blog as anyone else who follows the posting rules and wishes to post here.

Dougey seems intent on adhering to the lie about torture at gitmo. I know that modern pop music is hard to listen to but come on now doug, is "genie in a bottle" and scantily clad girls really torture to you?

Comment #89: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 11:11pm ET...

I don't know van, is sexual rape regardless of who does it not torture?

Also several people died in guantanamo and some who were innocent. I have no doubt that you do not LIKE the evidence, but you have done nothing to discredit it.

Its plain as day you are living in "non-reality", instead of coming over to "reality" where it is actually safer.

Doug E.

Comment #90: van said on 7/14/05 @ 11:27pm ET...

Not one single person has died at gitmo as a result of interrogation techniques allowed by the Bush administration. You are lying when you say otherwise and you know it.

Yes, some terrorists have died while in US custody, in most cases due to wounds received in battle, just prior to their capture. As Geneva and the laws of armed conflict allow the outright execution of unlawful combatants, I would say that bringing terrorists to gitmo instead of shooting them has been a rather nice thing for us to do. Especially when we give them lifesaving medical attention, and in at least one case, a prosthetic limb (this "innocent" terrorist was released, and then found again on the battlefield).

I wonder if our side got a good report from him about how the limb worked in combat.

Can you prove the rape charge dougey? I don’t believe that you can. Why do you slander the marines and soldiers guarding these evil terrorists? Like dick durbin, are you just looking to impress some moonbats, or maybe raise some cash for JC from the loony left?

Comment #91: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 11:34pm ET...

No really Van, I say that because it actually sounds like you believe your own Rush Limbaugh comments.

Have you read the official report ADMITTING to torture? Have you read the FBI report, like the patriot, and actually SEEN what it says?

That's what I'm asking van, because unlike you we all have. And we know torture was committed and it was against the law.

http://archive.wn.com/2005/06/25/1400/p/32/10cfb57daba2e4.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200507/s1414538.htm

And hey female guards straddling prisoners for fun, and then forcing them all to pile on eachother....What a great first class prison!

Doug E.

Comment #92: van said on 7/14/05 @ 11:50pm ET...

The first link is dead.

As to the second,

Oh my, the poor terrorist. Had to bark like a dog and wear panties.

Are you serious doug? I really would like to know. Humiliation is not torture no matter how many times you say it.

The terrorists held at gitmo are not poor unlucky innocent arabs caught up by mistake. These people are evil. They want you, and all your friends, and your family, and the rest of us here for that matter to either submit to their perverted view of religion, or die. That is it.

Believe the terrorists when they say that our civilization and culture is their target. Democracy, free speech, the ability to choose where and how to worship. All of these things are what the terrorists want to destroy.

You are seriously deluding yourself if you believe otherwise.

I really must stop now as I have to study. Should you wish to continue, I will be here tomorrow.

Bye

Comment #93: Doug Eldritch said on 7/14/05 @ 11:58pm ET...

My mistake Van, try this link coming from FBI reports:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050624/pl_afp/unustortureguantanamo

Let me guess....Because the U.N are all sleaze, and need the sleazy John Bolton to reform them, this report is not credible?

Even though it came from Washington...Give me a break.

Doug E.

Comment #94: Doug Eldritch said on 7/15/05 @ 12:09am ET...

Hey guess what Rovers and republicans for treason,

Novak ALSO had Karl Rove as his source!!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/politics/15rove.html?hp&ex=1121400000&en=15d2c0ff1133350b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Just breaking:

"Karl Rove, the White House senior adviser, spoke with the columnist Robert D. Novak as he was preparing an article in July 2003 that identified a C.I.A. officer who was undercover, someone who has been officially briefed on the matter said Thursday.

Mr. Rove has told investigators that he learned from the columnist the name of the C.I.A. officer, who was referred to by her maiden name, Valerie Plame, and the circumstances in which her husband, former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, traveled to Africa to investigate possible uranium sales to Iraq, the person said.

After hearing Mr. Novak's account, the person who has been briefed on the matter said, Mr. Rove told the columnist: "I heard that, too."

The previously undisclosed telephone conversation, which took place on July 8, 2003, was initiated by Mr. Novak, the person who has been briefed on the matter said."

Karl LIED when he said Novak told him who she was....He flat out lied, because he provided information to Novak!!!!

So wait....Then how can Rove claim he DIDN'T know who she was?

Oh how interesting it's getting.....Wouldn't vanny agree?

Where's John Bolton at now?

Doug E.

Comment #95: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 12:50am ET...

#92 van Your ignorance is showing. These detainees are Muslims. They are not college freshman at YourHomeTown College, USA. If they were, the panties thing would only be rediculous as would most of the other humiliations used. No, these are Muslims. And this is defiling, humiliation beyong anything a Westerner can imagine. These techniques were developed specifically for Muslims because of the great emotional harm they cause. Putting panties on your head, I can see that. You've probably worn panties on your head several times during chug-a-lug contests. Muslims don't do panties on the head nor do they do chug-a-lug contests.

It's a different world, a different belief system and your lack of compassion for the beliefs and values of others is typical of the right wing "Christian" majority. And I find it very very sad that America has become over run by such ignorance.

Comment #96: Doug Eldritch said on 7/15/05 @ 1:09am ET...

WAR ON WILSON:

"In an exclusive interview Lewis Libby, the Vice President's Chief of Staff, told TIME: "The Vice President heard about the possibility of Iraq trying to acquire uranium from Niger in February 2002. As part of his regular intelligence briefing, the Vice President asked a question about the implication of the report. During the course of a year, the Vice President asked many such questions and the agency responded within a day or two saying that they had reporting suggesting the possibility of such a transaction. But the agency noted that the reporting lacked detail. The agency pointed out that Iraq already had 500 tons of uranium, portions of which came from Niger, according to the International Atomic Energy Administration (IAEA). The Vice President was unaware of the trip by Ambassador Wilson and didn't know about it until this year when it became public in the last month or so. ""
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,465270,00.html

CURRENT EVENTS:

"The very next day, July 7, 2003, the White House admitted it had erred in including the references about uranium in Bush's State of the Union speech.

Two days later, two top White House officials disclosed Plame's identity to at least six Washington journalists, an administration official told The Post in an article published Sept. 28, 2003.

Those two officials were Karl Rove and Lewis Libby. "

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00227.htm

So Lewis Libby & Dick Cheney were the second source, besides Rove.....Let me guess Libby got it from Bolton...!

Doug E.

Comment #97: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 1:13am ET...

EVERYONE * JC, please promote this to your fellow Representatives.

My wake up idea this morning...

Everyone take one Republican, sit him or her down and have a serious talk. Make it your Mom, if possible. Tell your MOM that under the Patriot Act, YOU will be labeled a terrorist. Get the Patriot Act out and read the part relevant sections to her. Cry. Tell her YOUR life is at sisk. Tell her Bush will destroy YOU, deny YOU your freedoms.

Get the surverys of the media exposure, showing that the media is right wing and withholding the truth. Show her how Bush is withholding the truth. Show her how these are the same steps that Hitler took to convince Germans... well, maybe not push Mom too far.

Then tell her, beg her, if she does nothing else for you in her life, to write to her representative and demand that he or she vote against the Patriot Act. Tell her, if she doesn't protect you by standing up to protect the Constitution, you may be forced to leave the country.

This is what I'm going to tell my mother.

Give her the names and addresses of the relevant Representative and Senator. Make sure, if she's a Republican, to say "I am a Republican and I voted for you" if that's true.

The Patriot Act must be stopped. We have only a week or so to do it. If every one moves just one person a little to protect the Constitution, this world will have a chance.

I'm going now to put all these links on my site. There's a reference area in the login area of my site, for more reseach. I'll put these relevant links on the outside, now.

Let's put together a letter to send out to everyone on our mailing lists.

Also, please continue to post to and expand upon the Conyers Time Line Project

Comment #98: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 1:15am ET...

Admin, Please fix the horizontal scrolling. Thanks.

Comment #99: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 1:28am ET...

# 60 Kertis -

1. Look to see if the event is already posted.

2. If it's not already posted, then post it. In this posting, write a relevant title, such as a key phrase or quote. Then write a paragraph to expand the idea, to tell readers what's inside. Be sure to include relevant keywords in this paragraph. (Both the title and this paragraph are searchable). Save and find the posting.

3. Click its [view/add] link. Put your additional information in the form provided. Please don't put any HTML in the form. Paragraphs and line breaks are automatic. (I'll go write that in the instructions now.)

4. If the event is already posted, add your information as in #3.

I think the problem last time was that you included HTML coding. All I did was take out the extra line breaks.

Comment #100: Seth Cowen said on 7/15/05 @ 1:49am ET...

You Democrat party members and others who do not see the truth because you are blinded by party politics, are just as bad as the Republican Party Members whom you think are to blame. You justify all the bad things that Democrats Party Members do, you chat about benefits of bi-partisanism when the Democrat Party Members are co-conspiring with the Republican Party members, and you just don't want to pull your head out of the sand or whatever hole your heads are in. But when you want to complain about something you blame it all on the horrible Republicans or whatever funny names you have for them. The same is said for the Republican Party members in reverse.

You people really don't get it do you?

This isn't a game any more, it's not about your party winning, it is about all Americans losing.

Why don't you stop caling yourselves Liberals, and proud lefties, and then talking about how you want to see the center grow strong.

You are hipocrits and lieing to yourselves.

I am an American, and if I have to describe myself politically, I am a Conservatively Liberal Democratic Republican, I pledge allegiance to the Flag o fthe United States of America , and to the Republic for which it stands.

If you people don't want to accept my reallity check then you will just keep on living in the dark. I am trying to lead you to the light , but you just want to, keep playing your party politics games. If you don't believe me, and you think you are so smart and supreme bloggers or whatever, look up the stuff yourself,,look up Hegel, look up the protocols of the Elders of Zion, though the protocosl of zion ar claimed to be forgeries , the fact remains that they are a document over a hundred years old, that lays out a plan for world domination, through means which include but are not limited to , Terrorism, and Party Politics, dumbing down of the masses, etc.

Seth

Comment #101: Doug Eldritch said on 7/15/05 @ 2:42am ET...

Seth,

Who says your rhetoric about party is even valid at this stage?

Most of us don't want to have anything to do with the DLC democrats, who have been conspiring with them.

In fact most of us denounce them and are quietly trying to get rid of them, including Joe Biden who may resign....I don't think you see the large picture.

Conyers, Slaughter and Dean aren't to blame for that corruption. That is the fault of our DLC leaders who have fallen the way into corporate interests.

There is a GRAVE difference between the DLC leadership and the DNC grass roots movement.....That is the part you need to learn. Go complain and get angry on Senator Feinstein's blog instead of here....doesn't she have one?

The difference between them is night and day....Its the same thing with moderate republicans and the PNAC-followers of the right wing. Difference of night & day, buddy.

Doug E.

Comment #102: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 2:55am ET...

#100 Seth "Why don't you stop caling yourselves Liberals, and proud lefties, and then talking about how you want to see the center grow strong." I see your point here. I was a "centralist," in fact, a Republican, but have been pushed so far to the left by the abuses and abuses of power of the right.

Few people have suffered the absolute abuse I have personally and professionally suffered under the "Christian Right". The evil there has cost me everything I had.

Now, I agree with you that we should be approaching the moderate centralists to wake them up.

But, Seth, a great battle is brewing. Being a moderat centralist will only benefit this world if he or she is active for the truth. That takes him or her to the left.

Whether or not you wish to acknowledge it, the left liberals are the ones who stand up and fight for liberty. It was no mistake that Stalin took "intellectual liberals" to the gulags first and by the millions. It was no mistake that the founders of our country were liberals. And it's certainly no mistake that Jesus is a liberal.

The left is appalled by the torture and abuse of the prisonners, for instance. The right thinks it's silly for anyone to complain. The moderates? Where do they stand and do their stances make any difference?

Our only hope right now is the left, the liberals. When this is over and we have won back the liberties that our Constitution gave us, then I, and millions like me, will be happy to move back to the moderates and go into our old ages in peace and freedom.

I've moved the reference section to the outside of Soapbox4Truth.org and will update it during the next few hours.

Truth and Liberty, Seth, are neither liberal, conservative, nor moderate. But it is the Liberal who fights for it. And that's just a fact throughout history.

Comment #103: Meg said on 7/15/05 @ 3:26am ET...

Anyone who speaks out against the government is unpatriotic. Anyone who speaks out against the patriot act, is unpatriotic. While the media is slowly saturated with this kind of sickening drivel, people begin to be afraid of being labelled as such, so they start choosing their words carefully. This is reminiscent of Hitlers time, Stalins time, Pol Pots time, Husseins time. As time goes by, how are the "laws" going to change in relation to "unpatriotism"? Will be be charged with committing unpatriotic acts? Will they be considered terrorists simply because they stand against what their government is doing?
One thing is clear......... with the rise of every empire, is the fall of it.

Comment #104: Rese said on 7/15/05 @ 6:32am ET...

Sandra Comment # 84 excellent.

This can silence all protestors, using a variety of means, so that the internet stays open to the corporate world, and to those Americans too busy working to make ends meet, happy to watch Survivor, glorifying greed, and paying more and more taxes for less and less true protection.

Comment #105: van said on 7/15/05 @ 11:35am ET...

Patriot

I was under the impression that no real muslim would murder innocent women and children so how is it that the terrorists are muslims again?

I do not recall having professed faith in any religion on this site. Why must you push your anti-christian biases here?

Comment #106: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/15/05 @ 2:53pm ET...

Boy has today been hot. I think I lost 10 lbs in sweat at work.
I spent all my free time this morning writing a complete response for van and lost it all because I provide more than 10 links. Back button did not recover it. Sigh.

van, I acknoledge the possibility that you do not know the difference between fact and propaganda. Fact is established information that has been verified while propaganda is information that is only passed off as established and verified. So if you did not know that, you're forgiven; and now you know.

You tried to present misinformation several times here. What you need is an implement such as this.

Allow me to elaborate. You want to know what we cannot do now that we could do before the patriot act.
The answer is to protest and question our government without fear of retaliation. As it stands right now, anyone could be imprisoned without charges simply for doing anything that may look like they're trying to influence any government by intimidation or coersion. That includes public protest, attempts to embarass any government official in any way, letter campaigns to get some polititian to change something. Any form of intimidation or coersion.
But that's just the trigger. After that there is the fear instilled in us all by the recent indefinite imprisonment of people without charges. You asked a quaint series of questions:
Has your property been confiscated outside, or inside for that matter, of search and seizure laws?
Have you been denied the right to legal representation? When?
Have you been indefinitely imprisoned without being charged with a crime?
Which human rights are you no longer allowed to have?
Have you or anyone you know been disappeared?

But you asked the wrong people, ask Hamdi and Padilla. There is finally some closure to the Hamdi case. NEARLY THREE YEARS after his capture, the government has agreed to release Yaser Esam Hamdi. It has been holding him as an "enemy combatant" at a naval brig in South Carolina. The deal will allow Mr. Hamdi to return to Saudi Arabia, where he will renounce any claim to American citizenship and accept travel restrictions.
However, for three years the administration insisted that Mr. Hamdi be held incommunicado and without any semblance of normal legal process or rights despite his American citizenship. For most of his detention he was prevented from meeting with his lawyer. In 2002 the government contended in court that merely allowing him to meet with counsel "jeopardizes compelling national security interests" and would "interfere with if not irreparably harm the military's ongoing efforts to gather intelligence." Mr. Hamdi, it warned, might even "pass concealed messages through unwitting intermediaries."
So after the supreme court ruled that Hamdi must either be charged or released, the Bush Administration finally relented and brokered a deal in which no charges will be brought.
This is important, he (a civilian) was incarcerated in a military prison for 3 years without charges, without coucil, and without any contact with the outside world.

This is one of the twisted forms of logic that perpetuates propaganda. The idea that since it has not happened to you, that it has never happened to anyone. Or that it cannot happen to you because it has not happened to you yet. The use of either form of logic is a sure sign of propaganda.

Now you made another statement:
"Not one single person has died at gitmo as a result of interrogation techniques allowed by the Bush administration. You are lying when you say otherwise and you know it."

That is an interesting statement because the Bush Administration has so far refused to release the names of a single person at gimo. They have even refused to release the exact number of prisoners there. So when you say this, you are spreading misinformation. There is no possible way for you to know who is there or how many or the conditions of their confinement. All you know is an estimate as to their numbers.
In fact, unless you've been living in a closet, you would already know that there have been several reports in the past year and a half that the conditions they are living in are causing despair, depression and suicide attempts. If true, then they are being subjected to a form of torture that is banned by most of the civilized world, (I'm assuming we are still considered civilized).

You asked doug for proof of rape charges and I believe they responded with enough proof. However, I would like you to look once more at some archived records of mine.
Nori Samir Gunbar
AL-YASSERI, Jan. 17
Hiadar Saber Abed Miktub AL-ABOODI, Jan. 20
Shalan Said ALSHARONI, Jan. 17
Abd Alwhab YOUSS, Jan. 17
Thaar Salman DAWOD, Jan. 17
Mustafa Jassim MUSTAFA, Jan. 17

More to come next post.

Comment #107: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/15/05 @ 3:02pm ET...

Mustafa Jassim MUSTAFA, Jan. 18
Kasim Mehaddi HILAS, Jan. 18
Ameen Sa'eed AL-SHEIKH, Jan. 16
[Name Withheld], Jan. 21
Mohanded Juma JUMA, Jan. 18
Asad Hamza HANFOSH, Jan. 17
Abdou Hussain Saad FALEH, Jan. 16
Hussein Mohssein Mata AL-ZAYIADI, Jan. 18

Now you've read the testimony of some of these prisoners, and I'm sure you have seen the photographs. Let me tell go out on a limb here.
There were a number of photos that the Inspector General did not release to the public because they were 'too inflammatory' for public release. You've read the testimony and you've seen the pictures. So why did they call it abuse instead of torture? There was a perfectly valid reason why. Did you notice that even though there were many women and children imprisoned in Abu Ghraib, not a single woman or child was present in any of the pictures? Would you expect a man who would sodomize another man by force to refrain from doing anything to the women or children? Several intelligence officers and at least on I.G. investigator said these pics and videos were of women and children.
What do you think would be so much more 'inflammatory' that they could not be released to the public?

Abuse - yeah that's bad.
Child Abuse - whoa, wait a minute.

Comment #108: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/15/05 @ 3:07pm ET...

So now I see you are an expert in Islam.
"I was under the impression that no real muslim would murder innocent women and children so how is it that the terrorists are muslims again? "

Let me clue you in; you are asking the wrong people. Why dont you ask that question on the Anti Jihad forum. They will happily answer your questions and they are highly qualified to do so. And tell them jdlech sent you.

Comment #109: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 3:11pm ET...

#105 van - please note that I put "Christian Right" in quotes. No true follower of Jesus would murder innocent women and children nor would they commit terrorist acts, be they of the Christian faith or of the Muslim faith.

Comment #110: Patriot said on 7/15/05 @ 3:29pm ET...

#105 van - you said: I do not recall having professed faith in any religion on this site. Why must you push your anti-christian biases here?

Please don't put a twist on what I have said and what I mean. I am opposed to the "Christian Right", having been treated been abused by them all of my life.

I had my first awareness at the injustices of the "Christian Right" at age five in Sunday School. It was downhill from there on in my family and in my community.

I was an outcast. Imagine, being a little kid and being an outcast in a world "Christians". How is that possible???

The rhetoric you and the other "Rights" give people here, the insults, the laughing at anyone's pain, at anyone's suffering, just reminds me of all those years that my pain was laughed at. I was a lonely child, very very very lonely and noone understood me. It took me decades to find out what was wrong with me.

And now I know. I'm a liberal, just like Jesus and Thomas Jefferson. I don't like it when people get hurt. I don't like it when people are abused. I don't like mean people. I don't like people who gossip and insult, who twist the truth to make it suit them. Therefore, as a whole, I don't like the "Christian Right".

Comment #111: Doug Eldritch said on 7/16/05 @ 5:30am ET...

As an aside: Add murder, terrify, and threaten to the christian right. They're psychopaths who deserve no shame.

Congressman Conyers,

It is very interesting that we soon will be seeing the Downing Street Townhall meetings, for real and with much awareness happening right there in Washington.

It is interesting to me that we are finally getting our answers.

Although the White House stonewalled all questions regarding the downing street minutes which we demanded they answer, to this day the answers are falling out in a pack of trickling waterfalls.

Today we now know many of the facts leading up to the invasion, and that Karl Rove was one of the traitors who directly blew the cover of the CIA because they wouldn't fix the facts for the war.

Today we know that the White House Iraq Group, is responsible for fixing those facts for war. And that just as the downing street minutes testify, there were forged documents and planted evidence in order to make an Iraq invasion legal.

Apparently further coming to light in this situation, is the fact that Dick Cheney was in charge of the White House Iraq Group. He worked billions of dollars in fradulent Halliburton financing, as the probes and hearings have uncovered.

Now we know that PNAC's AIPAC was involved directly, and that the reasons David Kelly died was someone "else" in CIA had to make sure their plans weren't compromised.

There is some very, very enlightening developments happening as these questions get answered.

I applaud the work everyone has done, and we now know the steps they took to get this illegal invasion.

Moreover, it is interesting to me that Iraq is on the brink of civil war now that we've found the documents...

"The Republican National Committee, through Chairman Ken Mehlman and an RNC media hack named Carolyn Weyforth, are continuing to smear Amb. Joseph Wilson and his wife in a carefully coordinated campaign being staged out of the White House. Karl Rove, a "person of interest" in the criminal investigation being conducted by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, is directing the smear campaign -- one of Rove's particular talents. A number of Republicans, including disgraced former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and the mentally unbalanced Republican Representative from Long Island, Peter King, are now stating that Wilson was incorrect about what he found in Niger. Here, the Republicans are basing their assertion that Iraq attempted to procure yellow cake uranium (uranium oxide) on proven forged documents -- forgeries that are also the subject of Fitzgerald's investigation and which may ultimately lead to a close foreign policy adviser to Karl Rove. The record on the purported attempts by Iraq to obtain uranium from Niger is solid and backed by facts.

Wilson is one of the few U.S. diplomats whose resume includes "Africanist." Fluent in French, a former ambassador to Francophone Gabon, the head of the Africa desk at the National Security Council, and political adviser to the European Command in Stuttgart, which includes Africa in its AOR (area of responsibility), Wilson is highly-respected in Africa. Furthermore, his first Foreign Service embassy posting was Niger and he has maintained close relations with Nigeriens ever since. And even better, Wilson was America's last envoy to the Saddam Hussein government. It is doubtful that many U.S. diplomats have extensive experience in both Baghdad and Niamey -- the two ends of the neocon fantasy about a uranium pipeline."

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com

Part of this civil war indeed has to do with oil type "money deals" and, indirectly part of it has to do with the formerly CIA asset "Al Quaeda" which did a clandstine operation on Britain.

If Khan was responsible for the london bombing as we believe, then it may be possible to prove he's with Bin Laden. That would go towards establishing a conspiracy with Cheney....Yes he's involved in everything.

So we must press on, I salute your steadfastness! And I salute Louise-Slaughter, Howard Dean, Sheila Jackson Lee, Ron Paul, Henry Waxman, Jerold Nadler and all other congressman who stand with us.

The truth will come out and we WILL stop them, as all things as my witness.

Here's to Downing Street!

Doug E.

Comment #112: van said on 7/16/05 @ 12:16pm ET...

im sorry patriot

i was unaware that you have a direct link with God and Jesus so you know what there true message is. you can be opposed to any religious faction you wish, but just because you disagree with their interpretation of ancient writings doesnt make them evil or you good. to paint all "religious right" persons as bad or "un-christian" is awful judgemental of you. shame shame shame.

Comment #113: Doug Eldritch said on 7/17/05 @ 1:40am ET...

Vanny,

I don't think its "awful" judgemental at all. I'm a proud christian, and see very little to anything that is "christian" in the christian right/reich.

They do things jesus is not very proud of and many other things in the name of god, which should not be done in the name of god.

I just thought I would throw that out there, since you seem to be doing it so well yourself.

Doug E.

Comment #114: Patriot said on 7/17/05 @ 5:00am ET...

Doug, thanks for the input. I'll start clarifying my statements to "Christian right/reich". And I said, "as a whole." There are some members of the "Christian right/reich" I actually like. But then, I keep my mouth shut and don't give them the opportunity to know my political views. That's what I, and my fellow liberals, must give up to be accepted in some circles.

I have to either keep my views to myself or lose my friends, associations and family. This is a situation that, while it's been a problem for liberals all our lives and was hush-hush, is now the acceptable treatment. That is UN-American behavior and is AGAINST the Constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech.

Desent is the truest form of patriotism. Thus my name, Patriot. Because I desent.

You don't care about me.
You don't care to understand what I think or feel.
You don't care whether my right to express myself freely and without consequence is protected.
You don't care at all.
You'd rather hurt than help.
You'd rather cause suffering than relieve it.
You'd rather speak than hear.
You'd rather I continue to bear the pain of my childhood than say, "I'm sorry you were hurt."
You'd rather spew hate than love.

If you wish for me to respond to any statement you make in the future, it must be preceded by a statement of having heard and understood my childhood pain and expressing regret.

God bless you. I wish you well.

Comment #115: Patriot said on 7/17/05 @ 5:02am ET...

#114 "You don't care..." comments are meant to be directed to van.

Comment #116: Patriot said on 7/17/05 @ 5:19am ET...

#112 van "i was unaware that you have a direct link with God and Jesus so you know what there true message is."

Actually, van, I do have a direct link with God and Jesus. Everyone does.

One must ask, "Why would anyone go to a mere moratal for answers when the Bible and Koran are so handy and prayer even handier?" And these links are direct, no distortions (not counting the rewrites of the Bible which is another topic I don't wish to get into here) and corruptions possible with going to sinful and sometimes self-serving mortals?

Going to the source (a liberal habit for any topic) blows the CR/R agenda completely. Which is why, of course, the CR/R goes to second- and third-hand sources such as clergy, Fox, other CR/Rs, chain emails, gossip.

Try it sometime, van. Go to the source. Get out the Bible and turn to Matthew and see if anything the CR/R is doing can be found in that chapter.

I put the sources on our site, . Go there and have a look around. See if you can find where the CR/R's agenda can be confirmed as Constitutional and following the teachings of Jesus Christ and Thomas Jefferson.

References included are full text versions of:

Holy Bible
Koran
Declaration of Independence
Constitution of the United States of America
Bill of Rights in the Constitution
Writings of Thomas Jefferson

Direct links. Direct sources. I'm not afraid to go there. Are you?

Comment #117: Jay Lechnyr said on 7/17/05 @ 9:27am ET...

Notice van had nothing, nothing to say to respond to me. He knows he's caught so he does what any neo-con would do. He takes a page from the Bush playbook and tries to ignore me.

Too bad we're on to him.

Comment #118: van said on 7/17/05 @ 3:25pm ET...

jay as usual has no idea what he is talking about. the criminal acts perpetrated by a few criminals in abu-ghraib have nothing to do with official us govt policy. i understand that jay is lost in his hatred but there really is no excuse for his intellectual dishonesty.

patriot

i suppose you should ask the catholics why they would go to a mere mortal for religious answers. i did not hurt you. i have nothing to do with the people who did. this is simply an attempt to generate sympathy were none is needed. you are also full of it. daily, you express your views on this site and probably others. no one has taken your right to expression away. when you say that, you are lying. how does jesus feel about your lying? I have read most of those texts you listed. none of them encourage a "patriot" to lie in order to make a point.

my parents are quakers. they are good and moral people. they also support george bush and this war on terror. your bull***t complaints about oppression are absurd. for most of the last century, liberal thought ruled this country. "liberals" like robert byrd not only joined the klan, but started their own chapters. liberals like ted kennedy killed a woman and got away with it.

dont give me this crap about a "christian reich" you are incredibly stupid if you really think that you can compare the evil of the nazis to the actions of the christian right in this country. the biggest mistake you make here patriot is thinking that religion has anything to do with govt actions. you people would explode if george bush did something overtly religious or christian while president. you (leftists in general) cannot stand the thought of religion in govt. "wall of separation" remember? and speaking of thomas jefferson, he did own slaves and rape them when he felt the need so lets not pretend he is a paragon of virtue. you may be interested to know that he was the first US president to confront islamic terrorists however. history channel tonight. the battle for tripoli. you might learn something.

and for one last thing

matthew 10:34

Do not suppose that i have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not bring peace, but a sword.

John 14:6

Jesus answered "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Revelations 22:18-19

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

The last two make your reference to the koran invalid. The first, take as you wish.

Comment #119: van said on 7/17/05 @ 4:00pm ET...

i went to jay's anti-jihad site. so are you agreeing with their position jay or what? if you agree, i have to wonder what you are doing here, defending JC, a noted religion lover, (as long as one is not a christian or jew). If you do not agree, then perhaps you could tell me how "peace loving muslims" could support or carry out suicide bombings that intentionally target children and civilians.

Comment #120: kanamaru said on 7/18/05 @ 1:59am ET...

On Jun 26, 2005, PanAmsat Corp agreed Jsat Corp's satellite on NY, USA in late 2007.
Why could America license to Japanese satellite in the US's sky again ?

Japanese mind-controlled/will mind-control American people for money.
Inside of Jsat Corp, NEC persons are good, NTT persons (not Toshiba spies) are suspects and Toshiba persons are absolutely criminals.

America can't protect American people.

As a fact, on Jul 11, 2005, Santa Clara County Superior Court couldn't protect Lexar Media, Inc. from thieve Toshiba Corp.
As a fact, on Mar 16, 2005, Toshiba employee's son Takashi Sato, 12, went from Japan to Denver, Colorado and he, no wait, was given a heart by an American donor and was operated on Mar 17, 2005. Toshiba laborer supporters stole another patient's chance, using Toshiba's mind-control.

New Toshiba President Atsutoshi Nishida is crazier for money than Tadashi Okamura crazy for money. Nishida married an Iranian for Toshiba's business. Toshiba is being, president by president, risky and risky to the World.

I say, America should shut out World's strongest and biggest criminal Toshiba Corp.

by Seitaro Kanamaru, a Japanese
* My BBS threads in English : I am an Mind-Control Victim by Toshiba Corp since 1997.
http://www.perc.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=794
* My site in Japanese
http://jbbs.livedoor.jp/news/1301/

Comment #121: van said on 7/18/05 @ 2:11am ET...

Wow! Tinfoilhattery which demolishes what one normally finds at conyersblog. Bravo kanamaru.

Comment #122: Kryten42 said on 7/18/05 @ 5:43am ET...

Excuse me for interrupting the entertaining Troll War... and just in case anyone with a brain or (God forbid) any common sense actually gets to read this (I can but hope), and also to get back on topic for a moment... :)

A return to the good old days of J. Edgar Hoover: FBI monitoring Lefty groups

The FBI has thousands of pages of records in its files relating to the monitoring of civil rights, environmental and similar advocacy groups, the Justice Department acknowledges.

Perhaps a few will understand what this means. :)

Cheers.

Home \| Meet John Conyers, Jr. \| Latest News \| ConyersBlog \| Every Vote Counts! \| Election Reform Petition \| Iraq \| On The Issues \| Michigan's 14th District \| Contribute \| E-News Sign-Up \| Photo Gallery \| Awards & Honors \| Get Involved! \| Voter Information \| Contact Us